Why Do I need a 14" Band Saw? Cry For Help.

[knight_01]

I really want a 14" band saw. However, I can't really think of anything except for large ogee bracket feet that I'll need it for. I need a lot of inspiration on things that I can make which I can't live without if my furniture is to ever be truly fulfilling. :D

I've got a little 9" Ryobi bs902. I used it for cutting seat foam, but even at that I had to limit the thickness of seating I would cut to 3" and then laminate it up to be a couch cushion. I use it to cut corbels in 3/4" lumber and it works fine for that. So I'm having a hard time justifying the upgrade fee at this point.

But if my fellow woodworkers chime in with several gratifying projects that just can't be done on a 9" band saw I think I can swing the upgrade talk with my wife.

[BobSch]

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

I really want a 14" band saw. However, I can't really think of anything except for large ogee bracket feet that I'll need it for. I need a lot of inspiration on things that I can make which I can't live without if my furniture is to ever be truly fulfilling. :D

I've got a little 9" Ryobi bs902. I used it for cutting seat foam, but even at that I had to limit the thickness of seating I would cut to 3" and then laminate it up to be a couch cushion. I use it to cut corbels in 3/4" lumber and it works fine for that. So I'm having a hard time justifying the upgrade fee at this point.

But if my fellow woodworkers chime in with several gratifying projects that just can't be done on a 9" band saw I think I can swing the upgrade talk with my wife.

If you get a 14" with riser you'll be able to cut/resaw up to about 12".

[jAngiel]

It's a guy thing, size matters....

[Rounder]

Resawing. And everyone else has one.

[Tundra_Man]

Regardless of cutting height capacity, I was able to justify replacing my BS902 with my Grizzly based on accuracy alone. I had no problem getting my Ryobi to cut curves. The problem was getting it to cut the curves I wanted! The accuracy difference between that and the Grizzly is night and day.

[maxparot]

I think you want to make a large round table.

[Mainemarc]

quote:Originally posted by maxparot

I think you want to make a large round table.


Yes, and wasn't knight_01 talking about massive cabriole legs just the other day? I'm quite sure he was.....

[LarryG]

Large round table shouldn't be a problem for even a 9" saw, unless the top is thicker than its vertical capacity. Those massive cabriole legs, though, are another matter ...

A 14" saw will cut dovetails to the center of a ~27" wide panel. A 9" is probably maxed out at around 17".

[DaveinFloweryBranchGA]

You need the circle cutter that comes with Grizzly's saw they have on sale now for some project, such as a lazy susan you are going to build as a spice rack for your wife.

Dave

[Otter]

knight_01

Go on and get the 9" and in 3 months you will be posting about needing a bigger band saw and then spending the money on that. Then ordering the riser 3 months after that.

My advice is buy a 14" with riser. Order at least 1 timberwolf blade and the Woodslicer(form Highland Hardware, great resaw blade). And be happy for a long time.

I did the first thing and still kick myself for not going to the 14 right off, what a waste of money.

The Grizzzly 550 is a popular choise, it come with everything but the riser and longer blades, if you have the money, it is a good bet, other are just as happy with the HF, Ridge, and others.

[LarryG]

Okay, this is my second shot at this, but I think I've got the winning entry:

A bigger bandsaw will have a bigger motor, which allows faster feed rates, which means the work in the shop gets done quicker, leaving more time free to spend with SWMBO.

[JR]

Once you build BostoBullit's vacuum press you'll want to cut some nice veneers. You'll [u]absolutely</u> need a 14" with riser kit for that.

Bookmatched panels for doors? 14" with riser kit.

JR

[Mainemarc]

quote:Originally posted by JR

Once you build BostoBullit's vacuum press you'll want to cut some nice veneers. You'll [u]absolutely</u> need a 14" with riser kit for that.
JR


Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

[SteveR]

Salespitch time huh? As others have mentioned...resawing wider pieces, maybe toss in a side note on saving $$ on lumber by doing it yourself...and big(ger) bandsaw boxes so the LOYL can have a cool place to store big(ger)stuff...

the dovetail idea is a good one, I did not think of that.

ohhhhhhhh....I have it...cutting larger blanks for bowl turning (make sure you got a lathe before you pitch that one LOL)

You can get better BS blades with a standard 14"? instead of having them custom made for the Ryobi?....not sure if this one is correct or not....but hey you need to upgrade.

If all else fails....just read jAngiels comment to her LOL
Good luck!
Steve

[knight_01]

If I'm gonna cut nice veneers, won't I need a big drum sander too?

[knight_01]

quote:Originally posted by Tundra_Man

Regardless of cutting height capacity, I was able to justify replacing my BS902 with my Grizzly based on accuracy alone. I had no problem getting my Ryobi to cut curves. The problem was getting it to cut the curves I wanted! The accuracy difference between that and the Grizzly is night and day.


How many times do you need to cut a curvy piece for a project? Can you show me an example? The next curvy cut I can think of is an arched frame and panel door. But once again it's in 3/4" stock so I can really complain about a bs902. It doesn't track so hot in the wood but you always use a router flush trim and template to clean thee things up anyway so what difference does it make.

[SteveR]

Entry II Strategy-
Lay around some brochures on a larger BS...like a 18-20" MONSTER one. Keep the prices visible and highlighted. Then layout the 14" one you really want and highlight that price.
After she compares prices...she'll think the 14"er is a steal.
And there will be no questions asked!!!

[Otter]

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

If I'm gonna cut nice veneers, won't I need a big drum sander too?


No you will need a little drum sander. If you get a bigger BS then you needa bigger DS.:D

[Armini]

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

How many times do you need to cut a curvy piece for a project? Can you show me an example? The next curvy cut I can think of is an arched frame and panel door. But once again it's in 3/4" stock so I can really complain about a bs902. It doesn't track so hot in the wood but you always use a router flush trim and template to clean thee things up anyway so what difference does it make.


I have the Ryobi 10 inch, which is a great bandsaw to work with, lots of features, very easy to tune. But maybe my fifth project with it, I ran into its limitations. Doing curved front drawers to restore/replace a buffet piece for LOML (who bought me the saw in the first place), and the drawer fronts needed to be 4 3/4"....just a little more than the maximum resaw.

This revelation solicited the exclamation - wait for it.....

"I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT YOU A BIGGER BANDSAW"[^]

YMMV

[Otter]

Knight

Let me try it this way. Once you start using a BS for what ever, you will find that it is a very handy alt to the TS for cutting oversized stock, big odd sized stuff, not sheet goods, that would require at least 2 passed on the TS and some hand sawing to finish.

Not all, but many woodworking experts (I think David Marks and Norm Abram among them) would say that a good band saw should be you 3rd of 4th major tool purchase.

Just my opinion, I am usually wrong, just ask my wife.

[SteveR]

quote:How many times do you need to cut a curvy piece for a project? Can you show me an example?
Ask and you shall receive :D
Example here http://www.texaswoodcrafts.net/boxes/tower.asp
I do not think there is one straight cut in this one.
Seriously, with BS boxes, bad blade drift on cutting the drawers will be a disaster. Accuracy it big here. But could be a blade tensioning thing too.

[Otter]

quote:Originally posted by Armini

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

How many times do you need to cut a curvy piece for a project? Can you show me an example? The next curvy cut I can think of is an arched frame and panel door. But once again it's in 3/4" stock so I can really complain about a bs902. It doesn't track so hot in the wood but you always use a router flush trim and template to clean thee things up anyway so what difference does it make.


I have the Ryobi 10 inch, which is a great bandsaw to work with, lots of features, very easy to tune. But maybe my fifth project with it, I ran into its limitations. Doing curved front drawers to restore/replace a buffet piece for LOML (who bought me the saw in the first place), and the drawer fronts needed to be 4 3/4"....just a little more than the maximum resaw.

This revelation solicited the exclamation - wait for it.....

"I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT YOU A BIGGER BANDSAW"[^]

YMMV


Been there, did that, wore out the T shirt, bought the bigger bandsaw, gave away the smaller.

[Ing]

I bought mine cause it looked cool in my shop, and my grandpa got me started in WW when I was a kid on a BS.

[ChrisD]

From somebody who doesn't have one: THE SIDELINES SUCK!!!

[Tom Miller]

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

If I'm gonna cut nice veneers, won't I need a big drum sander too?

Now you're cookin! Oh, wait, was that meant as a negative? Hard to tell. But if so, you don't necessarily need a drum sander. Do you have a planer?

What I do (uhhh, what I did before I got a drum sander [:I]) is mill good surfaces on both sides of the board I was going to resaw. Then, I'd resaw a slice to ~3/32". Now, glue it milled-side-down to the substrate (MDF, whatever), and then use the planer to mill the rough side. Resurface the board you're resawing from, and you're ready for another slice.

When you need a 1/2" thick piece for a project, it's nice to have a 1/4" piece left over from your 4/4 stock, instead of sawdust.

There are some operations that, although they can be done on the TS, I feel a lot safer doing them on the BS. And when it's 8' pieces of 10/4 cherry you're dealing with, you probably wouldn't turn to a 9" BS. (OK, I've dealt with a grand total of one 8' piece of 10/4 cherry, but plenty of similar situations for the point to be valid.)

Regards,
Tom

[Tom Miller]

quote:Originally posted by ChrisD

From somebody who doesn't have one: THE SIDELINES SUCK!!!


Rally around, guys, we've got another one!

OK, Chris, we can get you through this....

[8D]

Tom

[LarryG]

quote:Originally posted by Otter

Not all, but many woodworking experts (I think David Marks and Norm Abram among them) would say that a good band saw should be you 3rd of 4th major tool purchase.I'll bet Marks would rank it higher than that. I've been watching WoodWorks only a couple of weeks, but have already noticed that he uses the dog out of his bandsaws.

If you're building cabinets out of sheet goods, the standard advice to buy a table saw first is probably correct for most people. But if you're building traditional furniture, you could make a very good argument that a bandsaw should be first.

[lrogers]

I read somewhere that a "woodworking expert" (don't remember who) said that if he was stranded on an island with only one power tool, it would be a good bandsaw.
Hopefully you won't have to go to that extreme.

[RayintheUK]

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

I really want a 14" band saw. However, I can't really think of anything except for large ogee bracket feet that I'll need it for.

But if my fellow woodworkers chime in ...........
I originally had a small bandsaw (Elektra Beckum) because I though that it would suffice - WRONG!! Aside from the fact that it was underpowered, wandered all over the place no matter what I did to the tensioning or what blade I used, its capacity was dire. However, I didn't replace it with a 14" - I decided that I might feel the same way about that one day - so I got a 20" Jet.

http://www.raygirling.com/images/gs13.jpg

This tool is taller than I am, weighs getting on for 580 pounds and will cut absolutely anything - oak tree trunks, re-saw 13", you name it. Can I justify it? Yep - I'll never have to wonder if I can saw it now! I know that this is absolutely NO HELP WHATSOEVER, aside from saying that you rarely, if ever, regret the purchase of a really good tool! :)

Ray.

[BobSch]

Ray wins.

[monte]

You'll be sorry if you buy anything less than a 14".

[Tundra_Man]

quote:Originally posted by knight_01
How many times do you need to cut a curvy piece for a project? Can you show me an example? The next curvy cut I can think of is an arched frame and panel door. But once again it's in 3/4" stock so I can really complain about a bs902. It doesn't track so hot in the wood but you always use a router flush trim and template to clean thee things up anyway so what difference does it make.

I do quite a bit of curve cutting. My soon to be revealed 2x6 challenge entry has nary a straight piece on it. Of course, you don't have to only cut a curve on a bandsaw.

Examples? Stand back! :D
<center>http://www.tundraman.com/Done/thermometer/Thermometer1.JPG
http://www.tundraman.com/Done/CandleHolder/CandleHolder1.JPG
http://www.tundraman.com/Done/ToyCar/ToyCar1.JPG
http://www.tundraman.com/Done/Guitar/Done-FrontView.JPG</center>

[LCHIEN]

quote:Originally posted by RayintheUK

[quote][i]...now! I know that this is absolutely NO HELP WHATSOEVER, aside from saying that you rarely, if ever, regret the purchase of a really good tool! :)

Ray.


The only time you'll regret that saw is when you have to move it!

[BrazosJake]

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

If I'm gonna cut nice veneers, won't I need a big drum sander too?


Hah, he knocked that one out of the park, JR!!

It can be done with a planer, but is not easy and only works on fairly straight-grained stuff (which is not usually what we want for pretty veneers).

A bandsaw, IMO, is the most versatile machine in the shop. It can be used to rip long pieces more safely and with less noise than on a TS (cut is not usually as smooth unless you have a really good blade). But then carbon BS blades can be had for about $10 apiece (of course, I'm looking at going carbide, for which a single blade will cost almost as much as I paid for my saw).

As for spending more time with LOYL, mine is a bandsaw widow, I spend more time fiddling with my bandsaw:-)

Other pros: Free/inexpensive wood is much easier to come by, because you can saw it yourself. I have a bunch of pretty, spalted sycamore from a 16"-diameter log (had to split it with a chainsaw first).

Personally, I've been so into tweaking my 14" bandsaw, I've about decided I may as well go to an 18".

Save time and money? Probably not. Have fun: Absolutely!

[BrazosJake]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Miller

quote:Originally posted by knight_01

If I'm gonna cut nice veneers, won't I need a big drum sander too?

?

What I do (uhhh, what I did before I got a drum sander [:I]) is mill good surfaces on both sides of the board I was going to resaw. Then, I'd resaw a slice to ~3/32". Now, glue it milled-side-down to the substrate (MDF, whatever), and then use the planer to mill the rough side. Resurface the board you're resawing from, and you're ready for another slice.


What kinda DS you got Tom? Your procedure is about the same as mine, only I use carpet seam tape to stick to the substrate. Unfortunately, highly-figured veneers of 1/16" or thinner often get mangled by the planer, and the rollers on the planer pretty well laminate them to the substrate, requiring much cautious removal.

Another way I do it is to simply apply the veneer smooth-side down, then plane the veneered panel.

But I really <s>want</s> need a not-to-pricey DS.

[messmaker]

I don't know if I had to have my bandsaw since I have done very little resawing but I have to say it may well have become my favorite machine. It does such a nice job on a lot of things with almost no setup and almost no noise. I bet almost nobdy goes without one after using one a good bit.

[Tom Miller]

quote:Originally posted by BrazosJake

What kinda DS you got Tom? Your procedure is about the same as mine, only I use carpet seam tape to stick to the substrate. Unfortunately, highly-figured veneers of 1/16" or thinner often get mangled by the planer, and the rollers on the planer pretty well laminate them to the substrate, requiring much cautious removal.

Another way I do it is to simply apply the veneer smooth-side down, then plane the veneered panel.

But I really <s>want</s> need a not-to-pricey DS.
What I meant by "substrate" is the actual panel I'm applying the veneer to -- same as your "another way" above. I tried the carpet tape thing once -- took quite a bit of care to remove the piece, to say the least!

I picked up the little Performax 10-20 when Rockler had them for $400. I haven't gotten much use out of it yet, but so far I'm impressed. For veneers, I've decided to still use a carrier board. But instead of taping the veneer down, it's sufficient to apply adhesive-backed sandpaper to the carrier board to hold the veneer in place.

Regards,
Tom

[tkarlmann]

As usual, I haven't read my main use/need for the bandsaw, although a couple of advocates came close.

Ok, the bandsaw is the ONLY tool for resawing stock, from veneers to any thickness you need-- up to 12" wide boards for the 14" BS with riser block. You already know this. You can even start out with logs and make your own lumber! The thin kerf of the cut is an absolute turn-on -- allowing you to keep your stock instead of turning it all to sawdust. These are the reasons why I got mine.

But now there are even more reasons. I have become an advocate of David Marks' WoodWorks TV show on the DIY channel. Of ANY TV WW-guy, David is unquestionably the best designer of contemporary furiture, period. I like the way David breaks down some really seemingly difficult WW issues into simple steps -- actually TEACHING the WWer HOW to do it. Sorry, but some others merely seem to demonstrate how they use their fancy tools as opposed to teaching methods of working.

Anyway. David is a strong advocate of developing a full sized pattern on thin MDF to create furniture. Very often those designs will have curves. You cut the patterns for those curves oversize on the bandsaw to get the shape you need. Then you file/sand the template's shape to fit your lines. Then you double-stick tape your new template to your expensive hardwood stock. You say you can't cut accurate curves on or follow a curve-line with a bandsaw? It doesn't matter. Read on!

So you also cut your WORKPIECE oversize based on your template. Then, template still attached, you use your router or router table with a pattern bit to finish the cut -- and it matches your template perfectly, and you can now make as many identical pieces as you want.

Now, you ask, why do you need a 14" bandsaw for this? Throat clearance. The smaller units just won't be as flexible. So bigger is better when it comes to bandsaws -- both throat depth AND height. However, you don't typically require both thickness of cut and throat depth at max at the same time.

The technique roughly described above allows you to do things you couldn't do before. Want Curved mirror frames? Bent laminations? your own Veneer or lumber? You just cannot limit yourself to the square world of the table saw -- it's just too limiting.

When it comes to the table saw, I think the BT3100 is enough saw for me -- I don't advocate big, heavy, $$$ tablesaws. (unless you do a LOT of plywood case goods maybe.) But when it comes to the bandsaw, you just simply cannot get anything but the absolute best you can afford. They are that good. [8D]

PS: Hey, don't forget bandsaw boxes either! They are great, and can produce income for you. They don't call 'em tablesaw boxes!

PPS: If you work with really teensy stuff or fine detailed cutting -- get a scrollsaw to compliment your BS.

[Popeye]

So you can get addicted to making these

446/Lg_and_small_box_together.JPG

[Pappy]

Let's cut to the chase here. Why do you need a 14" Band Saw?

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ONE!

[Otter]

quote:Originally posted by Pappy

Let's cut to the chase here. Why do you need a 14" Band Saw?

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ONE!


Pappy wins, he has the right reason...:D:D

[RagerXS]

Let's take this discussion to the next level... Assuming I've pretty much settled on getting the Grizzly Ultimate Bandsaw (G0550?), why stop there? What makes the 14" bandsaw the right size for a cost-concious hobbyist?

~ Fred

[dlminehart]

Fred, the next size up tends to cost twice as much for a few more inches of elevation and double the horsepower.

[LCHIEN]

David is right plus you can match the resaw capacity of a 20" saw that costs over twice as much with an inexpensive riser block which seems only to exist for the 14" size saws.

BTW, its the Grizzly G0555 that grizz sells as the "ultimate 14" bandsaw"

http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pics/jpeg288/G/G0555.jpg

[Pappy]

Reasons for the G0555 over other 14" BS's. Come standard with fence, tension release, bearing blade guides, and miter gage. These are all after market accessories/up-grades with other saws. Add to that the cost of the riser block kit which is about half of the kit for other 14" saws. Grizzly also a has good customer support system.

[BrazosJake]

I've been looking at upgrading the motor on my Ridgid and going to a carbide blade, but figure may as well go bigger on the machine, so I'm eyeing the 18" bandsaws pretty hard. "If only"!! General Industrial is closing out some Jet 18" for $850 (of course shipping makes it an even $1k for me).

Maybe next year, when the truck is paid off.

[tkarlmann]

I think criteria for going bigger than a good 14" BS can vary with the individual. If you don't already have a 14" BS w riser block, then this is a tough decision. If you already have a 14" BS, then you kinda know if you need more saw than you have.

If you are the type that likes to plan everything to death first, then buy, you won't be yet satisfied with the above.

Guidelines:
- What type of work do you want to do? If you are not sure, then I can't help you, but a 9" BS may not give you a fair assesmemnt of this type tool.
- Budget: If you cannot see spending what the larger saws cost, then by all means get a good 14" w riser block first.
- Space: Some of these larger saws are BIG and HEAVY. Do you have dedicated space in your shop? (Include height here) Will you need to move it around? Can you move it around? -- (check to see if wheels are available)

[Tundra_Man]

As an extension on the problems experienced by Rod Kirby on another thread, another good arguement for the Grizzly G0555 is "an instruction manual that is readable and makes sense."