Plumbing - copper vs pvc

**capncarl** · 05-24-2015, 08:15 AM

Have you considered PEX? I was opposed to it when it first became popular thinking its was the dumbed down version of pvc, but I have not had a single failure with PEX yet. I have 11/2" and 1" pvc in my garden and well areas and regardless to how good I do freeze protection something slips by and I have a busted pipe or fitting. If you keep the PEX run hose only and not use any fittings for turns it seems to be as good as they say and will not rupture when frozen. Add fittings and it is no better than the fitting and will freeze.
capncarl

**Stytooner** · 05-24-2015, 08:37 AM

Pex would be my recommendation as well. I have replaced all of our plumbing that I could see with Pex. Zero issues. I still have polybuteylene (sp) (outlawed gray stuff) under the house. I know it will need replacement at some point. I will do that once it does fail. Pex will be the replacement material.

**Condoman44** · 05-24-2015, 08:40 AM

I had not worked with PEX until 2011 when we moved to our new house. In the past it was always copper that I sweated.

The new to us home was retrofitted to PEX for all water & heat. It took a few new tools (when is that ever bad) and some internet research and I am very comfortable with the process. At this point I would consider PEX over copper for several reasons. 1) Much easier to route and rough-in. 2) Tight spots are much easier when no fire is involved. 3) Fittings are available at most hardware and big box stores. 4) Conversion to copper is easy with an adapter.

In the 4 years I have been here I have extended the heating zone with a new addition (used oxygen barrier PEX), installed rough-in plumbing for new bath, vanity, toilet & clothes washer. All this was pressure tested before the cavity was sealed up. Later I discovered one tiny heating leak because of a faulty sweat adapter connection.

There are several connection methods & I used the crimp ring style because the parts are readily available & the tools cost less.

**os1kne** · 05-24-2015, 09:45 AM

Thanks, but I don't have the tools for PEX, and I don't need to do enough plumbing to justify buying right now.

**os1kne** · 05-24-2015, 11:21 AM

The more I think about it, the more I'm reconsidering - and thinking that PEX is the way to go and buying the tools would be a worthwhile investment for future projects. (Probably adding a bathroom in a year or so.)

I looked at PEX when I remodeled my kitchen 10 years ago. At the time, it looked like working with PEX required ~ $200 worth of tools, etc. I didn't need to do much plumbing work, so I used copper. These days, it looks like the PEX tools have gotten more common and less expensive.

Thanks for convincing me to be more open to modern methods!

**Daryl** · 05-24-2015, 02:31 PM

Pex and shark bite fittings. The only tools I have ever used is a cutter, around ten bucks and a little gizmo to take mistakes apart, about three bucks.

**capncarl** · 05-24-2015, 03:30 PM

I think that Ive seen cheaper PEX crimped at Lowes, not a high quality tool you would want to have to use every day making a living but good enough for occasional home work ( like HF tools).

**bmyers** · 05-24-2015, 03:38 PM

PEX all the way. I was leary at first to PEX but came around fast. You can buy 100 ft of PEX tubing and the tool for less than 3 sticks of copper.

**JimD** · 05-24-2015, 07:23 PM

Around here, all the builders use CPVC. I was skeptical but it is much easier and quicker than sweating copper. My current house is all copper, at least what I can see, but has well water that is bit acidic. We get a blue tint in the showers. I may switch things over when redoing the baths.

**capncarl** · 05-24-2015, 08:49 PM

In my last job I was responsible for designing and specifying potable water system in buildings. Code prevailed but I always specified that all PEX in overhead areas be continuous with no joints or connections. This reduces the chances of overhead leaks and frozen / busted connections. Since code does not require this my requirements were not always followed but the better contractors did follow my design, the ones that didn't were what I call "builder grade", the kind of builder that would also install a water heater in an attic! It's all about a dollar.... In his pocket.
capncarl

**atgcpaul** · 05-24-2015, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by JimD

Around here, all the builders use CPVC. I was skeptical but it is much easier and quicker than sweating copper. My current house is all copper, at least what I can see, but has well water that is bit acidic. We get a blue tint in the showers. I may switch things over when redoing the baths.

Our house is all CPVC. 18 years old now and no problems. Seems like new CPVC is softer than the older stuff which has more "snap" to it when being cut. I'm crossing my fingers it doesn't become like the gray pipe.

**Condoman44** · 05-25-2015, 07:44 AM

There is a cheaper PEX tool that lets you do the squeezing with pliers. Keep in mind that some connections you make will not be in open areas but in places where getting the tool in and being able to squeeze it will be difficult. The ratcheting type let you squeeze to the point you know that the connection is properly set.

As far as removing the crimp rings I bought that tool but do not use it hardly. It is simple on the crimp rings to bend the tab that holds the ring shut then regular pliers can be used to peel it off the connection.
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**woodturner** · 05-25-2015, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by os1kne

The more I think about it, the more I'm reconsidering - and thinking that PEX is the way to go and buying the tools would be a worthwhile investment for future projects.

I would also choose PEX. There are also less expensive tools - Lowes has a hand tool for $25 (think I paid $15 after a coupon) that works well in tight quarters, is a good tool to have, and is a good way to get started. The full tool kit is $90 ($70 AC), still pretty reasonable in my opinion.

**os1kne** · 05-25-2015, 08:22 PM

I seem to recall looking at PEX 10 years ago and being intimidated by the cost and complexity of the tools and fittings (Wirsbo, Rehau and others). I've rarely needed to do any water supply plumbing work.

It looks much more manageable now, regretting that I haven't educated myself about PEX sooner.

Plumbing - copper vs pvc

Plumbing - copper vs pvc

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