Building cab base out of melamine. What should I use?

[CptanPanic]

I am building a closet unit using some melamine. I have never worked with melamine before and was wondering what the best way to build it would be, confirmant screws, dowels, dado, etc. My requirements are no expensive tools required < $50. I am leaning towards confirmant screws, where I just need to buy a new drill bit, but let me know.
Thanks,
CP

[cgallery]

I've never used confirmant screws, but I've ready a lot of positive comments by those that have.

If it were me, I'd use a biscuit jointer (which I already have, but I don't know if you have one).

[cabinetman]

Melamine can be dadoed or rabbeted. That way you can create a glue joint, in addition to mechanical fasteners. Or it can be butt joined and screwed. I've had good luck with a combo pilot drill/countersink, and coarse thread drywall screws. When screwing into the edge, have the pilot hole centered on the stock. If butt joining, and the outside won't be seen or will be laminated, the joined pieces can be tack stapled or brad nailed holding the pieces for position, and then fastened with screws.

For 5/8" flat to a 5/8" edge I use a 2" screw. For 3/4" flat to 3/4" edge I'll use 2 1/4". I'll use a cordless drill on the slowest setting and when the head nears the countersink, to just bump tighten. Fast sinking of the screw may strip out the hole, or may break the screw.
.

[pelligrini]

Recently I built a drill press cab/base for my shop out of 3/4" mdf core melamine. I didn't use any fasteners for the cabinet, just dadoes and rabbets. It's all glued togeather with tightbond-3 and the second top piece was attached with contact cement.

The dadoes and especially all the rabbets made it pretty easy to glue up nice and square. Quite unlike my attempts on other projects with just butt joints.

[RayintheUK]

If it were me, I'd use a biscuit jointer (which I already have, but I don't know if you have one).

Sorry to disagree, Rudy, but you'd be trying to stick two different surfaces together if you used biscuits and I wouldn't rely on melamine as a glue surface. If you were thinking to remove the melamine, you'd be better off with rebates anyway, IMO.

Ray.

[cgallery]

Sorry to disagree, Rudy, but you'd be trying to stick two different surfaces together if you used biscuits and I wouldn't rely on melamine as a glue surface. If you were thinking to remove the melamine, you'd be better off with rebates anyway, IMO.

Ray.

I'm betting that a corner (butt) joint of melamine-covered MDF, stuffed with biscuits, is going to be nearly as strong as the substrate itself (even without removing any of the melamine).

When you add the fact that this is probably going to be a five sided box (inherent strength in its form), and that this thing is going into a closet to hold undies/socks/shoes, I imagine the biscuits should be plenty strong.

YMMV.

[cabinetman]

I'm betting that a corner (butt) joint of melamine-covered MDF, stuffed with biscuits, is going to be nearly as strong as the substrate itself (even without removing any of the melamine).

When you add the fact that this is probably going to be a five sided box (inherent strength in its form), and that this thing is going into a closet to hold undies/socks/shoes, I imagine the biscuits should be plenty strong.

YMMV.

Ray is right. IMO, biscuits are a poor form of joinery, even considering they are fast and convenient. The mere characteristic of the glue/biscuit configuration, and the biscuit swelling, has the ability to make an obvious "bump" location at the surfaces over the biscuit. I've evidenced this when laminating over with a gloss mica. While they may hold with sufficient strength to prevent the parts from pulling apart, they also compromise the edges where installed with the slot being cut and leaving a thin edge on the substrate.

For structures that may endure more critical use or be subject to torsional forces, it would be a weak joint. The biscuit being a form of a spline, doesn't fare in comparison to using a spline instead, being made of either plywood or solid wood. The false trust in biscuits affording any real alignment perfection may create problems if prior preparations aren't made for cauls and clamps.

The fragility of the composite in MDF, particle board, and melamine require as much connection surface as possible. Glue works well in composite to composite joints. Just breaking the melamine surface may be all that is necessary. For example, depending on the form of fastening, an 1/8" deep dado or rabbet and glue is sufficient to create a better union than just a butt joint.

As for glue and melamine, Roo Glue is recommended for melamine, which is likely better than nothing. That old standby known as epoxy would also work.
.

[cgallery]

A little research indicates that if you do want to use biscuits you can use Roo Glue to additional holding power between melamine surfaces:

http://www.rooglue.com/

Here is a page where they describe some techniques for construction using melamine:

http://www.swcp.com/~awa/Cabinet_Making.htm

All assuming you have a biscuit jointer, BTW. And I'm not saying this method is better than those special screws, either.

Good luck, I'll look forward to seeing pics in "finished projects" when you're done.

[jziegler]

I have used the confirmat screws, and they do work very well. I have used them (alone) for a few simple projects now. I first got the drill and hte screws to get me out of a bind that I had on an MDF project (successfully) and then moved on to use them on a couple quick melamine bookcases. It's very simple and quick, but I did find that getting a few right angle clamps to hold two pieces together while you drill and screw is a good way to go.

Now, dados will be a stronger joint, but for most melamine cases, the screws should do the job, and with less work too.

Jim

[cgallery]

Ray is right. IMO, biscuits are a poor form of joinery, even considering they are fast and convenient..

I know, Cabinetman, you hate biscuits. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[CptanPanic]

Thanks for the info, I think I will use confirmat screws and maybe dados. If not dados maybe I will use biscuits for alignment.
Thanks,
CP

[JimD]

I built several cabinets for a kitchette and a bathroom in our basement from melamine particle board. I dado'd or rabbetted and used drywall screws where they would not show as recommended by cabinetman. They are holding up fine. The sink cabinet had to be screwed through the top and bottom because the sides are exposed. I cut very shallow rabbetts and dados, just enough to remove the melamine (except on the sink cabinet where the rabbets are very deep so not much more than the melamine covers the top and bottom pieces).

I also found a glue that looks like thin white glue that sticks to melamine. I do not know if it is sold anymore but it worked OK. Glueing to the particle board was far stronger, however.

I will have to disagree with cabinetman about biscuits. I rarely use them on cabinets - but I have successfully. I made a house full of raised panel doors using biscuits (double #20 minimum) in the corners of the frame. They held up fine. I would think this is more stress than a cabinet. They do not penetrate far into the pieces so the surface area is limited but the fit is very good - the biscuits swell from the glue enhancing the fit. I've busted up a few things built with biscuits and the joints are not where the pieces separated. Wood magazine also tested biscuits and gave them a poor rating but I think that had a lot to do with how they did their test. I think there are better ways to build cabinets but biscuits are decent. They add substantial strength to the joint but if you can find a way to make a full length dado or rabbet, it is better IMHO. Maybe that was cabinetman's point.

Jim