car won't start. help

[atgcpaul]

Wife's car won't start. At first, turning the key resulted in the battery drain type turning over--not quite but almost there. The engine almost turned over. We dropped the kids off with the other car and I was about to jump it. Cables connected up except for the last one to the engine's block. Before connecting the last cable and starting the cars, I turned the key to the stereo position to just check if it was the battery. Radio was fine. Lights fine. I disconnected the cables and tried starting again. This time, though, I just got click-click. The engine didn't try to turn over at all.

Earlier I was convinced the battery had drained but now is this a starter thing?

Thanks
Paul

[Cochese]

Impossible to diagnose over the internet. It's entirely possible your battery has failed, in part due to this heat wave. Radio and lights will work on much less power than it takes to turn the engine over. If your lights are on and you try to start and they go immediately dim, that's a good indication that it's the battery.

Advance does free battery testing, so if you can remove it and take it up there that would be a start. Other thing they can do is check the alternator and make sure it's charging the battery adequately.

Try jumping it and taking it to the nearest one (I believe AutoZone does it as well). And you'll know for sure.

[cabinetman]

The battery can be low enough not to start the car but still power the radio. If it will start with a jump, you need a charge, but likely a new battery would be better.

.

[pelligrini]

Probably a starter problem, could be a low charge on the battery though. I just did this again last week with an '03 Taurus (again). Charge your battery, or jump it. If it turns over fine, with no initial hesitation, it could be that you weren't providing enough amps to the starter. More than all likely it's the starter.

Last Wed I stopped by CVS on the way home from work. I finally got the car into the driveway 6hrs later off of the tow truck. I tried jumping it there, no dice, the emergency roadside program I had sent out someone to see if they could start it. I told them you ought to just send a wrecker, I'm pretty sure it's the starter again. The dude had a jump box, and no tools to even remove the battery terminals to clean them. After that failed attempt I got a ride home from my mom and headed back in my Camaro (which also has problems starting). Failed to get it to go, and called a the service back and had them send a wrecker. 2.25 hrs later it made it into my driveway.

I pulled the starter the next morning and had the auto store bench test it. The solenoid was good but the starter wouldn't even spin. Luckily it was under warranty. I think it's the 3rd time I've gotten another re manufactured starter from the initial purchase. I'd say half the problem was the quality of the part, the other half would be the poor design of this Ford V6. The oil filter is right above the starter, and catalytic converter. I've had a few filters leak, not too long after I'm having starter problems again.

[TCOTTLE]

Radio and lights take a lot less amperage to operate than starter.
Click click noise sounds like starter solenoid is engaging, but there is not enough energy to actually make the starter motor turn over.

Like Cochese said, it sounds like the battery is drained. Either it has bitten the dust, or your alternator is no longer charging it.

[JimD]

I've had a similar experience on both my SUV and my boat within the last month. My SUV is six years old and was on the original battery. I went to Banff a couple weeks ago and had a real early flight (has to get up at 2am). I was obviously not alert and left an interior light on for 4 days. I got a jump at the airport (I had cables and the guy was already nearby jumping somebody else). It would not crank without the jump but started right up when jumped. I thought the 2 hour drive home would charge it but it failed to start 2 days later so it went on the charger. It wouldn't charge so it got replaced.

My boat, however, did about the same thing but it's 12 year old battery took a charge fine.

I always start with the battery and put it on a charger if necessary. If that doesn't resolve the issue I will go to the starter or elsewhere. But usually it has been the battery. It's also a very good idea to check the batter cable connection, especially if there is residue on it. I've had that be the issue too.

Jim

[jseklund]

As stated, I would pull the battery and take it to advance or autozone and have it tested. You typically need the battery to show more than 12V to start a car, and your lights and radio will look fine on much less than that.

If it's the starter, you could pull that and take it to the autoparts store and they can check that too. The labor involved on some cars can be excessive though - so I'd definately check the battery first.

Also, check the basics - do you have fuel? Have you checked all your fuses?

If you take the battery in and they say it is OK, then charge it and see if the car starts. If it starts on a known charged battery - then I'd look to your alternator (again, they can check this at the autoparts store once you remove it).

What type of car is it?

[LCHIEN]

batteries going bad typically have a sharp rise in internal impedance, essentially appears like a resistor in series with the battery. Lets say 1 ohm in your case.

Loads like a radio have fairly high impedance like 100 ohm so it can work OK with because 1% of the battery voltage will be on the 1 ohm and 99% will be across the radio.

Car starters have very low impedance, it takes more then 100 amps to start a car. that would be something like .01 ohms. In that case 99% of the voltage is applied to the internal impedance and the engine gets 1% of the battery voltage.

The battery is abused at this point, maybe yesterday you had enough voltage to barely turn over the starter but today you did not. The internal impedance is probably going up and the voltage going down.

[LinuxRandal]

Agreed that it is probably the starter, but it could be the connection to it. It doesn't hurt to try to charge the battery before trying anything else. You could also use a multimeter to check the charge level of the battery and even go further and check the connections to the starter to determine if it is a cable issue to the starter or the starter itself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mKrx-fMi_8

[Stytooner]

I just replaced everything on a PT Cruiser.
The last thing I didn't replace in the entire starting system including the ignition was the cables. Once they were installed, all is good. All is also brand new.
The cables I removed looked to be in perfect factory condition, but there was apparently enough of a break down inside that it could not deliver needed amps.
The starting system should be good for another 10 years.

[Cochese]

I've never had to replace a starter in any car I've owned. It's not typically a part that gets a lot of abuse or wears out quickly.

[LinuxRandal]

I've never had to replace a starter in any car I've owned. It's not typically a part that gets a lot of abuse or wears out quickly.

How long do you keep your cars?
I've replaced quite a few, but then again I wrenched for a while. On my personal vehicles, I have replaced two now. One on an antique vehicle (71 Superbeetle), one for a second time on my now 18 year old Ranger. (actually had my first lesson in push starting it to get it home in the driveway to do it).

[Cochese]

Not usually longer than three years, I understand that it can be a problem the older the car is.

Even so, on my older vehicles I had (65 Beetle, 76 Elky) they weren't issues there either. I guess my point is that it would never be my starting point. I always go battery, cables, alternator and starter is the last part I ever look at.

[cwsmith]

Typically, in my experience it is either the battery or the starter.

With a low battery, you usually still run the radio unless the battery is completely dead. A good indication of "battery" is that the interior lights will go extremely dim when you try to start the engine.

Jumping the battery, should remedy the "bad battery" and the starter should turn over the engine and hopefully start it. However, you may have to wait a couple of minutes for the "jump" to put some charge into your battery first.

If the starter is bad, even a "jump" won't help you. I've had what might be called "bad spots" in my starter, where at one time it would start and at others, it would just give me that "click, click" sound. My Toyota was like that and I had to replace the starter.

As far as the spark-plug cables are concerned, it is usually humid and moist conditions that evidences their failure. (When it's dark, you can may see them spark leak.) But, with the plug cables the engine will turn over at least.

Very important is to check your battery cables. If they haven't been maintained, they may well have a thin coat of oxidation which severely limits both the battery charge as well as the battery's ability to supply the starter with significant amperage to turn the starter.

Here in my area, Autozone is probably one of the best places to have your electrical system checked. They can quickly determine where the problem may be and whether your battery is capable of handling the starter load.

I hope this helps,

CWS

[atgcpaul]

Battery. Called roadside assistance from progressive insurance and a guy was at my house in 5min. Jump worked and he recommended i get a new battery although his meter said it was ok. I really wish i had bought his battery for $130. Got to costco, bought new battery and car wontstart. Try to change battery but only brought pliers and not socket set. Can get th leads off but battery is trapped under a bar. Wife is coming to give me a jump. Not the way i envisioned my day off