Dishwasher saga

[Cochese]

Thought I had posted on this before, but a search says otherwise...

Our house was remodeled well before we bought it by, let's just be frank, a moron. Unfortunately the home inspector we used must have been related to said moron, because I'm not sure how you do this willfully, and then miss it. Unfortunately, I must have a cousin or something in the same family, because I didn't notice it until a problem came up.

Our kitchen is mostly the result of a addition put onto the back of our house probably a decade ago. Doubled the space in my bedroom, added a second bath, moved the W&D and completely rearranged the kitchen. I know all this because my in-laws live in almost the exact same house with a different addition. I'm not sure exactly what happened or why, but it looks like the cabinets were transplanted to their new spots, and tile put down.

In that order.

So, if you look at our kitchen, the stove is about an inch higher than the counter. It also wasn't readily apparent at first, but the dishwasher is sitting directly on the subfloor. That's a problem by itself, but the tile is an inch or so proud of the subfloor. Meaning, they installed the dishwasher, then brought in the counter on top of it and there's no discernible way to get the dishwasher out without breaking something.

Naturally, the dishwasher stopped working.

Now if I had my say I would try to remove the counter intact, remove the cabinets and bring the floor up level and put new cabinets in and Bob's your uncle. But, it's not entirely my say. So, I have to look for temporary solutions to fix hopefully what is a temporary problem, but not guaranteed to be so.

There are two filler sections, one to each side of the dishwasher. I'm hoping I can remove these, gain enough access to find and fix the problem, and be done. No real problems here, aside from making new filler panels and attaching them. Approach 1.

Approach 2: notch the lip on the counter to remove the dishwasher. I'm almost positive that if you removed the lip, or made it hinge in some way it would come out. Problems being that it would almost certainly ruin the current counter. If I'm going to damage the counter I'm going to have to replace it, because it will be ugly and start peeling.

Approach 3: use a tile saw and detach 4-6 tiles in front of the washer. Either by destruction and replacement, or cutting away in whole, remove the tiles and the backer material to slide the dishwasher out for maintenance or replacement. Tiles and backer material would be replaced as a unit and grouted back in place for easier access if there's a next time. Only complication here is a small one, as there's a vent (way to go, I'm sure there were permits fellas!) right in front of the washer. That's less of a problem than getting the tile slab to feel solid when it's replaced.

I really don't like this house, but we're here for 5-10 years probably until it recovers value. I certainly don't want to be stuck with a broken dishwasher for that amount of time. Some ideas would greatly be appreciated. I'd like the budget to stay fairly low - I can replace things, but not in conjunction with a new dishwasher if it comes to that.

[LCHIEN]

thats a bummer, sounds like either the counter or the floor tile are going to have to give or the DW is stuck in place until the next remodel.

I'd raise the counter so it met the stovetop even and then you'd have room for the DW to go in under the counter and above the tile level after you put shims on the subfloor for the DW to sit on. Probably some impact on the backsplash... but then, so do all the other options.

Sounds like a lot of work either way.

[cabinetman]

Dishwashers are configured to fit a 34½" high opening. There are usually adjustment feet that can be screwed in to allow more space. Many DW's have a full height header panel in the front that may only be a few inches deep (towards the back). From there on back the top of the DW is fairly low from the underside of the countertop height.

Worst case scenario, if any of the adjustments don't give the space, the control panel (at the top front) may be removable, which would allow the room. Before trying to move it out, make sure there are no screws holding it to the countertop.

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[jking]

Dishwashers are configured to fit a 34½" high opening. There are usually adjustment feet that can be screwed in to allow more space. Many DW's have a full height header panel in the front that may only be a few inches deep (towards the back). From there on back the top of the DW is fairly low from the underside of the countertop height.

Worst case scenario, if any of the adjustments don't give the space, the control panel (at the top front) may be removable, which would allow the room. Before trying to move it out, make sure there are no screws holding it to the countertop.

.

My first thought was the adjustment feet. There should be a removeable panel at the bottom of the DW at the toekick level. This should get you some access to the adjustable feet at the front. If you can get it lowered enough to get the front out, you should be fine.

[Cochese]

I'll take some pictures in a bit, perhaps you can see something I can't.

The feet are limited adjustable, and as far as I can tell are at the minimum. There is a 'cage' structure that supports the tub and houses the pump, etc. I disengaged the clips to the counter and lowered the legs but could not remove it.

[Bruce Cohen]

It could be worse. I have this fool of a neighbor who built a utility room around the existing appliances already there. This includes not only the clothes washer and dryer, but the furnace, hot water tank and water softener.
When he did this, he cheaped out on buying a door and got a 28" wide that was on sale, and I always thought they never made 28" doors.
Well, and you now know what's coming. The washer bit the dust and of course, it didn't fit thru the doorway,
So its either break down the wall, remove the washing machine and then instill a "much" wider utility room door, or torch the washer to a smaller size, and install the new one outside the utility room.

Almost as stupid as a friend of mine who built a Harley Fatboy in his 5th floor apartment, and the building didn't have an elevator.
I made sure I wasn't around when they carried the beast down 5 narrow flights of stairs.

I sure you figure out something workable. Best of luck.
Bruce

[Raffi]

at the very least, I'd sawzall the old one out of there

[tommyt654]

,There is an alternative

[Cochese]

Had to do that while we lived with the in-laws for four months. That's why it only lasted four months.

[toolguy1000]

what's the counter top material? if it's a glued on laminate, there may be a way around your problem.

[Cochese]

what's the counter top material? if it's a glued on laminate, there may be a way around your problem.

I believe that is exactly what it is. Your standard, cheapass big box store sheet of countertop.

[conscience]

Pull the counter. Laminate isn't that hard to remove and reinstall. Once it is off you can get the old DW out and the new one in. Put the counter back and deal with the larger problem later when (if) you are ready.

Even if you have a tile backsplash you should be able to get it out without damaging the tile. Theoretically tile is caulked and not grouted where it butts trim or counter space or different materials. Cut the top free from the caulk and remove the screws fastening it to the cabinets. If it is grouted you can just rock the top a little once it is unfastened to break the grout bond.

Tops with a 45 degree angle are joined to the mating top with special fastening software below the seam. You will know what to do to remove it when you see it.

Probably two to four hours to pull it, swap out the DW and replace it, depending on you confidence and skill level.

You maybe could cut the leveling feet completely off and get enough clearance, but you'd still have same problem when it came to installing the new one.

[Cochese]

Pull the counter. Laminate isn't that hard to remove and reinstall. Once it is off you can get the old DW out and the new one in. Put the counter back and deal with the larger problem later when (if) you are ready.

Even if you have a tile backsplash you should be able to get it out without damaging the tile. Theoretically tile is caulked and not grouted where it butts trim or counter space or different materials. Cut the top free from the caulk and remove the screws fastening it to the cabinets. If it is grouted you can just rock the top a little once it is unfastened to break the grout bond.

Tops with a 45 degree angle are joined to the mating top with special fastening software below the seam. You will know what to do to remove it when you see it.

Probably two to four hours to pull it, swap out the DW and replace it, depending on you confidence and skill level.

You maybe could cut the leveling feet completely off and get enough clearance, but you'd still have same problem when it came to installing the new one.

Good to know. No tile, it's got that integrated 4" laminate backsplash, and there is a 45º seam that will be tricky to get to, but I can figure out a way. There's also a trim piece on an adjoining wall, but I'll figure that out.

Just have to convince the wife. I'm going to call my dad over for backup on this. My only concern is severing all the connections to the wall and the cabinets to get it up. I do that, I can simply prop it up and get what I need to done. Putting it back I don't see to be an issue. Probably will just leave the sink in as well.

[twistsol]

We had the exact same problem, but rather than tile, there is 5/8 particle board with carpet over it in front of the dishwasher (that's another story). I couldn't pull the counters because they were attached tot he tops of the cabinets with a generous amount of construction adhesive. I ended up cutting the caulk at the back of the counter and removing the base cabinet screws. I was able to jack the cabinets on either side up enough to get it out. I'll admit that the counter made some interesting noises and it's probably cracked under the laminate. Kitchen is the next project on the demo and rebuild list so in our case, fast trumped tidy.

[chopnhack]

Score the caulk between the wall and backsplash with a sharp utility blade CAREFULLY since you will reuse it. It should give with some persuasion. Go slow and work each stubborn spot.