I've been infected by the green fever

[lrr]

Cochese,

I bought a TS 55 REQ in November. It has dramatically changed my approach to woodworking. Super accurate cuts, and perfectly square cuts. And zero tearout using the guide rail. (For those not too familiar with the Festool track saw, it has a splinterguard, and the guide rail has a splinterguard, so you get splinter-free cuts on thew top and bottom of the cut).

I still use my BT3100, and my old radial arm saw, but the track saw has taken over for breaking down sheet goods, and also for a lot of the subsequent breakdown of the panels into finished sizes.

I may still get a SawStop some day, but I've taken a big gulp of the green Kool-Aid and have a lot more Festool purchases planned. Next up, a Domino. I did breathe new life into my BT3100 with a Forrest Woodworker II. Amazing cuts. I breezed right thru some 8/4 oak on a recent project.

Also, I found a hose that works great with it for dust collection with a Shop Vac, if you are not planning to get a Festool dust extractor right away. The Bosch VAC005 hose, about $35 from Amazon, fits perfectly. Looks like it has the same connectors as the Festool hose, but no green stripe -- it is just gray. I could not justify a Festool dust extractor yet, since I just bought a Laguna cyclone this summer. (Make that: I could not figure out how to tell my wife I needed another expensive device to suck up sawdust!)

[leehljp]

While the high price of a tool doesn't make it necessarily better than a cheap tool, QUALITY tools that are usually high priced - certainly give a huge advantage to getting something done much better and make the work much more simple.

I bought an HF miter saw stand for about $75.00 and it could be adjusted in countless ways. But it was hard to set up, too many pieces, complicated, hard to move around; But it could be made to work.
Then I bought a Bosch Gravity Rise at nearly 3 times the price! WOW. I can use my Makita 12" DCMS with ease and accuracy without having to figure and reconfigure. I can get it, move it to where I want to use it and have it in operation in a minute or two. With the HF, I have to plan on 10 to 15 minutes to move and set up. To me, being able to focus on the work instead of the tool itself made all the difference in the world.


Back when Porter Cable was one of the Go To brands in most any tool, I bought a good heavy PC jigsaw. It was one tough tool but it had to be to keep from falling apart. It just was not balanced like a Bosch. Not even in the same league. And it cost about the same as a Bosch. Not all tools are equal, even at the same price. I can cut rings around the PC with my later purchased Bosch.

I have one Festool - the 6 inch sander. Love it but it is more tool than I needed. I should have purchased the 5 inch or maybe even the 4 inch. Still, I can do more with the Festool that I ever did with past ROS's from PC, Dewalt, Ryobi and Makita. I am satisfied with the quality of the tool and the quality of the work it does. With the others, it seemed to be a combination of my skills/touch and the tool itself. With the Festool, When I set the speed and direction, the tool does the work effortless.

Quality tools do make things easier and do make up for some lack of skills or abilities IMO. A GREAT tool will allow one to focus on the work instead of having to focus as much on the tool itself. That is what distinguishes truly great tools from good tools!

[Ruben]

I understand about buying quality tools, they make life much easier.
I can clearly see the advantages of a nice, precise saw versus a cheap saw that is impossible to keep tune up, but referring to sanders for example, like the previous poster was talking about, is there is such a difference in quality to spend like $300-$400 in a sander?

[lrr]

I understand about buying quality tools, they make life much easier.
I can clearly see the advantages of a nice, precise saw versus a cheap saw that is impossible to keep tune up, but referring to sanders for example, like the previous poster was talking about, is there is such a difference in quality to spend like $300-$400 in a sander?

A Festool sander is on my list. A few years ago I was at a woodworking show in Denver. At the Festool booth, they had a piece of nicely sanded wood. It almost looked liek it had a satin finish applied (really smooth, but no gloss). The Festool guy took a heavy grit paper and just ruined the finish. It had deep gouges when he was done. He then handed me the sander, and a stack of different grits. I spent maybe a few minutes going from coarse to fine, and when I was done, it looked like it originally did. And the sanding was almost pleasurable - well balanced, easy to control. And no dust, since the Festool design philosophy is "Leave no dust behind". (Sounds like the Marines ...)

[Cochese]

I understand about buying quality tools, they make life much easier.
I can clearly see the advantages of a nice, precise saw versus a cheap saw that is impossible to keep tune up, but referring to sanders for example, like the previous poster was talking about, is there is such a difference in quality to spend like $300-$400 in a sander?

The main difference is dust control with their vac, but I saw something Festool posted on their Facebook page from a user, who accidentally left their sander on when the power went off and came back. He had sanded an almost circular hole through several cm of his Festool table. That spoke volumes to me about how it was built, and the balance as lrr referred to above.

I don't know if I'd buy one from them, but I got a better idea about why they might be worth that amount.

[Ruben]

So talking about sanders, balance and less vibration is what it set them apart from the cheap sanders, besides dust collection?
I guess their tools are between those that you have to try to really feel you are getting your money worth.

A few years ago I was at a woodworking show in Denver. At the Festool booth, they had a piece of nicely sanded wood. It almost looked liek it had a satin finish applied (really smooth, but no gloss). The Festool guy took a heavy grit paper and just ruined the finish. It had deep gouges when he was done. He then handed me the sander, and a stack of different grits. I spent maybe a few minutes going from coarse to fine, and when I was done, it looked like it originally did. And the sanding was almost [pleasurable - well balanced, easy to control. And no dust, since the Festool design philosophy is "Leave no dust behind". (Sounds like the Marines ...)

Do you think you wouldn't be able to get the same finish in that piece with another sander using the same grits?
For people who spend hours sanding i can understand spending big bucks in a sander that doesn't make your whole body shake tough, but for occasional use i don't think i would put it on my wish list.

[Cochese]

Do you think you wouldn't be able to get the same finish in that piece with another sander using the same grits?
For people who spend hours sanding i can understand spending big bucks in a sander that doesn't make your whole body shake tough, but for occasional use i don't think i would put it on my wish list.

That's why while I have started to realize how better tools can make life in the workshop better, I'll always recommend going the route I did and seeing for yourself what the difference is. It's very hard to convince someone to spend 3x or 4x on a tool of similar abilities without being able to convey why it might be worth that. It's something one has to experience for themselves. New woodworkers probably shouldn't spend big bucks right away, something that a lot of people will disagree with me on.

[Ruben]

That's why while I have started to realize how better tools can make life in the workshop better, I'll always recommend going the route I did and seeing for yourself what the difference is. It's very hard to convince someone to spend 3x or 4x on a tool of similar abilities without being able to convey why it might be worth that. It's something one has to experience for themselves. New woodworkers probably shouldn't spend big bucks right away, something that a lot of people will disagree with me on.

Yeah, i agree, i think i never would expend that amount in a tool for just occasional use, no matter how nice it performs. that's the never ending debate of quality tools, average tools and budget.
I always try to buy the best tools i can afford for my business, that way i don't have to be fighting with equipment instead of concentrate in making money efficiently, but, for a hobby, as long as the tool do what is suppose to do, i have other priorities to spend the money.

[leehljp]

Ruben,

I don't think that everyone would necessarily need the difference. For me, I have sanded with my other sanders and then in the end I would use fine steel wool over that. But the Festool just does better to me and I don't see the need for steel wool like I did with the others. The Festool, compared to my Dewalt and PC, is a little like the comparison between the HF MS table and the Bosch Gravity Rise table, but not quite as severe. In my readings, one of the Bosch sanders came close to the Festool in performance and in dust collection.

Dust collection was one reason for purchasing the Festool because my wife said that she did not want any dust when I was re-modeling. My mom, back 15 years ago said that she did not want any dust when remodeling a bathroom with tile. I bought a Fein Multimaster at $175 back in '96.

My wife has severe allergies and my mom hated dust. These type of tools are made for people who must work in environments where dust must be kept to a minimum. Dust "levels" are not a major concern to most woodworkers but a necessity in some cases. But, even putting the dust collection aside, the Festool does perform at a level that is almost in a world of its own.

[Cochese]

I can say without doubt that the most dangerous book in the world is the current Festool catalog. We must find all the copies and burn them.

Then the internet. Somehow.

[lrr]

The main difference is dust control with their vac, but I saw something Festool posted on their Facebook page from a user, who accidentally left their sander on when the power went off and came back. He had sanded an almost circular hole through several cm of his Festool table. That spoke volumes to me about how it was built, and the balance as lrr referred to above.

I don't know if I'd buy one from them, but I got a better idea about why they might be worth that amount.

I just "lifted" the picture of that workbench from FOG (the Festool Owners Group forum).

This definitely shows how well balanced they are!

[Tom Slick]

Check out the machines Festool's parent company, Festo, makes. They are amazing.

link to Festo

[jussi]

Then definitely don't attend any of their classes/demos. Your wallet won't know what hit it. Early next year I'll probably be making my biggest festool purchase largely due to "free" class they had at my local lumber yard.

They also just took over their pro tools line so they'll be adding even more bank breaking tools.

I can say without doubt that the most dangerous book in the world is the current Festool catalog. We must find all the copies and burn them.

Then the internet. Somehow.

[lrr]

Check out the machines Festool's parent company, Festo, makes. They are amazing.

link to Festo

I'm not going there! I bought a track saw last month, and soon I'll be getting a Domino. And now I look at my routers, drills, sanders, etc. and wonder if my son-in-law is interested in getting into woodworking so I can justify replacing everything that has a Festool equivalent.

All I need at this point is to find out that Festo has items that can further drain my savings. I still have way too much to buy in the Festool line!

And I keep getting sidetracked on third party accessories. Qwas dogs, Parf dogs, Seneca Woodworking parallel guides, Woodpeckers rulers with stops -- the list just goes on and on and on and ...

[Cochese]

My Christmas list included a bunch of Incra rules to help measure more accurately. If that happens I can then spend some money toward the Festool stuff.

Not all of it though, some still just don't make sense to me, like a $500 cordless drill. I'm sure it's great, but I'll stick with my Ryobis as long as they'll turn.