The time has finally come

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  • Cochese
    Veteran Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 1988

    The time has finally come

    After years of fixing up, struggling and being generally dissatisfied with my shop, the time has come to say goodbye. I discovered some fairly extensive rot on the exterior ply on the high side, a sign that the water has been coming off of the roof and running down the side. Rather than try to replace an entire side of plywood, and continue to have the problems I have struggled with, the decision has been made to cut bait.

    Unfortunately due to zoning regulations, I am pretty much limited to the same square footage. I can go higher, which I will do, to gain attic storage. The other thing that will help is that the current shop will continue on for the time being, serving as storage for yard equipment, the mowers, house storage and etc. I was planning on keeping the scrap wood there, as well as my new lathe stand. I love my stand, but I need the room. There is the off chance I could actually win a variance request, but there are a lot of hoops.

    I'm currently working on the design, from top to bottom. I hope to start site prep in a week or two, and it will be built about 20-30 feet from the current shop. I'm hoping to build a deck between the two that will serve as an auxiliary work area, but primarily as a family area. When funds come back around and we're still in this house, the old workshop will be torn down and rebuilt.

    I will do my best to keep this updated, but as always I'll have much more detail and coverage on my site. I also have a thread going on WTO, but wanted to share here as well.

    I'll take thoughts and suggestions.
    I have a little blog about my shop
  • wardprobst
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 681
    • Wichita Falls, TX, USA.
    • Craftsman 22811

    #2
    Congratulations, it's hard to make this decision but I'm sure you will be happier. I would suggest that you consider some type of covering for the deck to shade and protect it. I have done that at two houses and it really is nice. I keep the miter saw on an SUV and do all those cuts outside as well as cutting plywood sheets down. I have a bunch of shop space but it is always full or pianos and/or organs and the owners take a dim view of dings that weren't there before.
    Best of luck,
    Dale
    www.wardprobst.com

    Comment

    • lrr
      Established Member
      • Apr 2006
      • 380
      • Fort Collins, Colorado
      • Ryobi BT-3100

      #3
      If your current shop is reasonably "OK" for space to actually work on projects, then keeping wood storage in the current building, and probably a lot of stuff you just store in your shop, but don't need all that often, should really help free up space in the new building.

      My basement shop is always overcrowded, and I've moved some items to my garage attic to free up space. But I have to keep an inventory list of what is up there. Once in awhile I want something, look forever for it, and then I realize I have it stored up in the attic!
      Lee

      Comment

      • poolhound
        Veteran Member
        • Mar 2006
        • 3195
        • Phoenix, AZ
        • BT3100

        #4
        Sounds exciting although I know there is a lot of effort involved. Having just moved into a my first dedicated shop space over the holidays I am still in chaos but I guess it is teaching me patience!
        Jon

        Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
        ________________________________

        We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
        techzibits.com

        Comment

        • LinuxRandal
          Veteran Member
          • Feb 2005
          • 4889
          • Independence, MO, USA.
          • bt3100

          #5
          I read the title and

          heard...........

          Tick, tock, tick, tock..
          Time has come today
          Young hearts can go their way
          Can't put it off another day
          I don't care what others say
          They say we don't listen anyway
          Time has come today
          She couldn't tell the difference between the escape pod, and the bathroom. We had to go back for her.........................Twice.

          Comment

          • jussi
            Veteran Member
            • Jan 2007
            • 2162

            #6
            Looking forward to see the progress.
            I reject your reality and substitute my own.

            Comment

            • Cochese
              Veteran Member
              • Jun 2010
              • 1988

              #7
              Originally posted by wardprobst
              Congratulations, it's hard to make this decision but I'm sure you will be happier. I would suggest that you consider some type of covering for the deck to shade and protect it. I have done that at two houses and it really is nice. I keep the miter saw on an SUV and do all those cuts outside as well as cutting plywood sheets down. I have a bunch of shop space but it is always full or pianos and/or organs and the owners take a dim view of dings that weren't there before.
              Best of luck,
              Dale
              Probably going with a pergola over the deck. Want to do a stone fire pit and everything, it's going to be a family space with the secondary function of being some extra working space. I will probably build a breakdown cutting table that can store away and do sheet goods prep on the deck.

              Originally posted by lrr
              If your current shop is reasonably "OK" for space to actually work on projects, then keeping wood storage in the current building, and probably a lot of stuff you just store in your shop, but don't need all that often, should really help free up space in the new building.

              My basement shop is always overcrowded, and I've moved some items to my garage attic to free up space. But I have to keep an inventory list of what is up there. Once in awhile I want something, look forever for it, and then I realize I have it stored up in the attic!
              Was probably going to keep sheet goods, the wall rack of cutoffs and the lathe in the old space.

              Originally posted by LinuxRandal
              heard...........

              Tick, tock, tick, tock..
              Time has come today
              Young hearts can go their way
              Can't put it off another day
              I don't care what others say
              They say we don't listen anyway
              Time has come today
              Great song.



              I have investigated applying for a variance, which I may do just to gain a few more feet. I think the start of the build might get delayed a bit, there are a lot of variables that I hadn't considered - foundation, insulation of said foundation to start with.

              So many things to consider...
              I have a little blog about my shop

              Comment

              • Cochese
                Veteran Member
                • Jun 2010
                • 1988

                #8
                One consideration was to go through the variance application process to see if I could put a 12x16 shop where I planned to do a 12x12. The site survey that is required and the documentation, plus the cost of the request, would put me down $1000 before I even broke ground.

                So, I can only build a 12x12. I'm a bit disillusioned right now and am considering just continuing to fix the problems of the current space. And suffer.
                I have a little blog about my shop

                Comment

                • LinuxRandal
                  Veteran Member
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 4889
                  • Independence, MO, USA.
                  • bt3100

                  #9
                  Is that enclosed only?

                  Wondering if you could do something like a porch (open) with a large, sliding door (off wet ground, and move stuff outside as needed.
                  She couldn't tell the difference between the escape pod, and the bathroom. We had to go back for her.........................Twice.

                  Comment

                  • Cochese
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 1988

                    #10
                    Originally posted by LinuxRandal
                    Is that enclosed only?

                    Wondering if you could do something like a porch (open) with a large, sliding door (off wet ground, and move stuff outside as needed.
                    It's total. Not really a lot of wiggle room, either.
                    I have a little blog about my shop

                    Comment

                    • Cochese
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 1988

                      #11
                      In the morning I lay out the footprint and setbacks and start digging. I may ever only end up with a hole in the ground, but it's going to be a well-engineered hole in the ground.
                      I have a little blog about my shop

                      Comment

                      • wardprobst
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 681
                        • Wichita Falls, TX, USA.
                        • Craftsman 22811

                        #12
                        Both that's exciting, hope everything goes to suit you and that any miscalculations turn into AHA moments!
                        DP
                        www.wardprobst.com

                        Comment

                        • Cochese
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 1988

                          #13
                          It seems like everything under the surface is rocks. Tons of them. Every shovel thrust hits one. I either have to bring in a machine or contemplate an alternative.
                          I have a little blog about my shop

                          Comment

                          • Cochese
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 1988

                            #14
                            I forgot I posted this thread, and was about to post another one.

                            So, after about two hours of digging about the time of my last post, I gave up. There were too many rocks to dig down deep enough to lay a good foundation of crushed stone. I've been suffering in the old shop this entire time. It does seem like the tilt of the shop is slowly getting worse.

                            It's been about a year since I posted this thread, and I guess the first signs of spring are what gets me motivated for a new shop. I've decided to start again, and it will be soon. Instead of digging down over the entire footprint of the shop and building back up with stone, I'll be going with deck piers. The high side will have the floor joists sitting on it, the low side will be raised up with 4x4. The current shop has done fine on some concrete blocks, mine will be engineered at least as well. The deal is still the same: 12x12. I can go 15' high, so I will. The plan is to do a gambrel roof to gain me just a bit more room in the loft. The old shop will hang around until I have the time and money to tear it down and build a replacement a bit smaller, perhaps 8x8 with a deck.

                            For now though, focus is on the shop build, and I'm looking for advice. Seeing as how I'll be stuck in the same footprint, I'll have to again do my best of maximizing my layout. The current shop will come in handy though, as I'm planning on keeping scrap in there, at least for now. The lathe could stay as well, because it's not dependent on any other tools during the course of turning. One thing I could use advice on is the loft. I wonder how enclosed the second floor should be. Should I do a 2/3 loft, or make it a true second floor with an attic ladder. Part of it will depend on what I put up there. I was thinking for sure a dust collector and my air compressor. A few bins of miscellaneous stuff (I have two right now in the shop), and perhaps the CT Midi if I absolutely am looking for every available inch. As long as I have a space in the other shop (whatever size it may be) for full sheets of plywood, I'm not sure I need a huge opening to the loft. Enclosing it will also help with noise from the DC/AC, and a place to hang lights evenly. The DC would come through the ceiling at some place most convenient, possibly at a couple points if the layout dictates. I don't want a lot of air pollution, in both respects.

                            I don't know if I could get away with any woodworking tools in the loft. Perhaps the lathe, if needed? I haven't looked at what the load bearing a 2x4 loft would carry. There's but one more tool (besides the DC) that I really have a need for, and that's a drum sander. The bigger footprint would allow this, but I'm not sure the 12x12 will. I'm not sure I want to put a sander or planer on the second floor. In fact, I know I don't want to put a planer up there. Drill press? HCM? Maybe.

                            Electricity. I'll still be running the shop off of extension cords, but putting those strips all over the shop is both expensive and ugly. I want to do in-wall sockets for ease and expense. I was thinking of running two different circuits on the first floor, and another in the loft. The loft circuit would be for the DC, a vac, and loft lighting - I wouldn't need to run more than one at once. The two circuits on the shop floor would be ran together, with four outlets (two on each circuit) placed equally around the shop. One circuit would be for big tools I would only be running one at a time, the other would be for the other shop needs - lighting, chargers, the TV/laptop. I don't know if I need those all around the shop, but might as well. The idea would be for extension cords to come into the shop at one spot, and plug into these circuits. I was thinking about using these: http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-4937-W.../dp/B00074USHY If I wire each circuit up separately to each plug at a central spot, the shop could at some point down the road be converted to run on standard trenched power. I'd just have to run extension cords to three different circuits at the house, and I think I have that covered. The male plugs wouldn't be an issue because the circuits wouldn't crosstalk, and the extension cords are the only source of power.

                            Any thoughts on the things covered or not? I'll be picking up the deck piers in a couple of weeks, and I'll be preparing them at some point after school is finally over (four more weeks!). With any luck, the floor joists will be done by the end of summer, and most of the grunt work will happen in the fall or early winter. Hoping to be move-in ready by this time next year.
                            I have a little blog about my shop

                            Comment

                            • poolhound
                              Veteran Member
                              • Mar 2006
                              • 3195
                              • Phoenix, AZ
                              • BT3100

                              #15
                              Lots of thoughts come to mind but the first is about the 2 floors and height.

                              You say you can go to 15' high but is that from ground to peak of roof or internal floor to rafters? If its external height once you have factored in your piers, joists and floor for both levels and rafters or structure for roof I would guess you would lose a foot or maybe even as much as two depending on the actual construction. Either way how were you planing on setting the room heights for the main floor and 2nd story?

                              It is obviously personal preference but I wouldn't want to go any lower than 8' ceilings in the main shop. Even if the 15' was all internal by the time you have joists and flooring on the 2nd floor and roof joists you may only get a max of just 7' height on each floor. I know you would like to get the most workable area but if you configure the upstairs for the minimum height you think you can manage (6' or maybe even 5') and use if for storage and as you say DC, compressor etc you could maximize your main shop floor height.

                              It sounds like the DC is the only thing that may need extra headroom depending on the model and configuration. As you are building from scratch you could even consider spiting the DC and having the motor/suck/filter side upstairs and have separator down or even structure the ductwork to have a separator outside. Just a thought :-)
                              Jon

                              Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
                              ________________________________

                              We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
                              techzibits.com

                              Comment

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