What kind of joinery to use?

[David D]

You could also just use the table saw to cut the half lap. Lay the piece down, do a cross cut, then stand it up and do a rip cut. Getting the exact fit will probably requires you to do some sanding or hand planing though.

I wondered about that. Given the equipment I have (and the experience that I don't), the router option sounds like the best route (no pun intended!) for me. That way, I can start with the pieces cut a little thick, and whittle them down to exact fit by moving the router up slightly (I drilled my table to use the allen wrench that came with the Bosch router.

[BadeMillsap]

Thank you!

You probably already know... Use a fence and backing boards to avoid tear out, practice on scraps of the same width /thickness as the real work pieces and realize you may not be able to get total finished cut height in single pass. If you can't get full height in single pass, I typically cut all eight laps at interim height THEN raise the bit and cut next pass until perfect fit.

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[cwsmith]

While a 'half-lap' is no doubt a very good joint, it's proper execution is much more time consuming and harder to execute in my opinion... especially if you don't have the right equipment or experience. Remember, this is a glue-joint and therefore the laps must be very smooth and precisely fitting so that the end result doesn't have one piece sitting higher (or lower than the mating piece. In other words, that 'lap' must be absolutely perfect.

A dowel is much quicker and far easier to execute and certainly strong enough for a door.

Just my opinion,

CWS

[David D]

You probably already know... Use a fence and backing boards to avoid tear out, practice on scraps of the same width /thickness as the real work pieces and realize you may not be able to get total finished cut height in single pass. If you can't get full height in single pass, I typically cut all eight laps at interim height THEN raise the bit and cut next pass until perfect fit.

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Gotcha. I'll definitely practice first!

Here's my progress so far. The outer frame isn't fastened yet. The door will inset into the outer frame.




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[BadeMillsap]

While a 'half-lap' is no doubt a very good joint, it's proper execution is much more time consuming and harder to execute in my opinion... especially if you don't have the right equipment or experience. Remember, this is a glue-joint and therefore the laps must be very smooth and precisely fitting so that the end result doesn't have one piece sitting higher (or lower than the mating piece. In other words, that 'lap' must be absolutely perfect.

A dowel is much quicker and far easier to execute and certainly strong enough for a door.

Just my opinion,

CWS

I agree that a dowel joint is quick and easy... IF (in my opinion at least)... You have the necessary equipment. In my case I happily use a Dowelmax jig whenever I join with dowels and get virtually perfect results every time... In the case of the OP... I gather he doesn't have a high quality dowel jig and was looking for a solution with available tools. For less than $10 he can buy a straight cut bit for the router table, and with a little practice and careful set up do the lap joint and gain a new and useful skill.

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[David D]

I don't have a dowel jig (yet). I do have a good assortment of power tools (BT3000, Bosch router, bandsaw, drill press, etc.). I just need to start adding stuff like router bits, dado blade, dowel jig, etc.

I do want to try mortise and tenon joinery. Maybe on the next project...

By the way, I've decided to re-do the outer frame as I want to make it a bit deeper to ensure the door sits perfectly flush and has enough room behind so it doesn't bind against the face frame. The cabinet will have a bottom ledge, and a small piece of crown molding on the top.

[cwsmith]

I agree that a dowel joint is quick and easy... IF (in my opinion at least)... You have the necessary equipment. In my case I happily use a Dowelmax jig whenever I join with dowels and get virtually perfect results every time... In the case of the OP... I gather he doesn't have a high quality dowel jig and was looking for a solution with available tools. For less than $10 he can buy a straight cut bit for the router table, and with a little practice and careful set up do the lap joint and gain a new and useful skill.

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I don't have a dowel jig either. While I presently use my drill press, I used to use a portable drill guide and dowel pins (centers). The dowel centers still serve me well to mark the mating piece.

I guess I didn't give any consideration that anyone would not have the capability to drill a fairly precision hole and then mate it. Just seems like such a basic requirement, way ahead of even being able to route. From my experience, trying to achieve a good lap joint is significantly more difficult and time consuming.



The drill guide is less than $50. My first was a Portalign from the 60's or 70's and my last was from Sears. I think they are widely available. The dowel centers are available from Lee-Valley for about $5 (and may be available elsewhere too). (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...at=1,180,42288)

In any case, I guess I didn't give any thought that dowels were anything but a pretty simple method.

Best regards,

CWS

[David D]

My ability to drill (or cut for that matter) anything straight is considerably dependent upon the accuracy of the tool or jig in use. In other words, I don't trust myself to keep an accurate enough line free hand.

I am VERY much a beginner at all of this. I am fortunate to have some decent tools, but I lack the knowledge and experience to use them to their fullest potential. While many things may seem like a "pretty simple method" to most of you here, I am just familiar with the methods, but have zero experience for most things. I truly am a beginner!

[cwsmith]

That's okay David. Please don't think I was being critical or trying to be difficult. I no doubt have less skill and experience that many of the other forum members here (which I greatly respect).

I try to keep things simple and have come to know that almost any task can be accomplished in more than one way; and that each of us will come to favor one method over another. Available tools and our skill to use them is gained over time and many of us favor particular ways to get the job done. For me, doing a lap joint hasn't proved all that easy to accomplish with precision and I generate a lot more sawdust.

Up until my retirement in 2003, my only tools were my favored Radial Arm Saw, a hand drill, circular saw, and a cheap sabre (jig) saw. A cheap set of chisels and the typical hand tools was about the limit of my arsenal. No shop space and whenever I wanted to do something I dragged everything outside. Still, I built a pretty good deck (18 x 25), a few benches, book cases and tables and did quite a bit of makeover to the house.

In the past decade or so, I've added quite a few tools and my shop now is in the basement of our 'retirement' home. The present shop is a rather crowded 11 x 20 ft space divided into two connecting rooms.

The point is that for many of us, it takes quite some time to get where we are comfortable and experienced in woodworking (or anything else). I merely wanted to point out that things don't always have to be expensive or that you need the favored tool of the day to accomplish a particular task. I don't have anyone to work with or directly learn from, so for me... I do a lot of reading.

So good luck and keep at it.

CWS

[David D]

Oh, no problem! I wasn't sure that I had made it clear about just how inexperienced I am. I am getting more comfortable with some exercises, such as using my router table, so I suppose I am leaning toward that method at the moment.

The idea of mortise and tenon is something that I'd definitely like to tackle, but I don't think I'm equipped for that yet. I would need to make or buy a jig to cut the tenons, and to be honest, I'm not sure how I'd cut the mortises, other than use my drill press and square off with a chisel, or buy a mortise machine. I'm assuming a bridle joint was suggested as I assume those can be done entirely on a table saw?

[JimD]

Two ways to make the half lap. You can adjust the depth to 1/2 the material thickness, cut the ends of the joint, then stand the piece up, raise the bit to the width of the pieces, and cut the other side. But you need a jig that rides the rip fence for making the cut with the piece vertical. Jig is simple U shape with a fence to clamp the piece to.

The other method is just a lot of passes over the blade. You don't have to cut all of the material, you can leave little pieces like 1/8 to 1/4 thick and split them off then do a little chisel work to flatten the surface.

You can make a mortise with a plunge router. It is best to use a spiral up cut bit but you can use a straight bit but it needs a bottom cutter. If all you have is a straight bit it will work but it's best to drill a starter hole. You also need a jig to hold the piece you are cutting.

I would be tempted on a painted piece to just use pocket screws. You could fill the hole on the back with a wooden plug but you could also just mix up some bondo (like you use on a car) and use that. Sanded flat and painted it would hardly be visible. You can also route and shape bondo like wood. You need to avoid the pocket screws, however.

[David D]

I've ruled out pocket screws on the door frame as there won't be enough room for the screws due to the rabbets for the mirror and the back. I did use pocket screws on the rest of the construction, with the exception of the actual box where I just screwed the butt joints together. In retrospect, I should've used pocket screws there as well. With glue and the back fastened on, I'm not sure that I need to be concerned though.

[cwsmith]

JimD,

Thanks for the instructions on making a lap joint, I'll give that a try. In the past I've only attempted it twice when making window screens for my basement windows. I just thought it was too time consuming and after the second joint I scrapped it and made mitered corners with splines instead.

I don't care for using screws for joints. I know that pocket screws are very popular, but something about using screws in my limited woodworking exercises, somehow is a 'turn-off'... maybe I'm just from some earlier time. About the only thing I use screws for is to retain a top or bench on the bench seats for the library as the joints there need to expand and contract.

David,

I like mortise and tenon joints, but so far have only used them on work benches and tool tables that I've built. In those projects, I've cut them manually with a chisel. First time I just used some utility chisels that I bought at HD (Marples brand). But a few years ago I bought some Narex 'mortise' chisels from Lee-Valley. They are not too expensive. Mortise chisels have relative longer blades and are thick-bodied to provide superior strength to fit the task.

Using a router or drill to clean out the mortise is a good idea and probably a lot quicker, but there is a certain satisfaction in doing it by hand, if you enjoy that kind of thing. Sort of dumb I suppose IF you're looking to just get the job done. For me, it's more about the trip than it is just reaching the destination... but then again, I'm retired and not crunched for time as if I had to do it just evenings or weekends. (When I was working, I had little time for anything else.)

CWS

[JR]

Using a router or drill to clean out the mortise is a good idea and probably a lot quicker, but there is a certain satisfaction in doing it by hand, if you enjoy that kind of thing.

Ha!

When I was a newbie as David is, I did one M&T project and immediately went out to Harbor Freight to get a mortiser. I would now be much more inclined to do mortises by hand, especially for a small project like this one.

[David D]

Ha!

When I was a newbie as David is, I did one M&T project and immediately went out to Harbor Freight to get a mortiser. I would now be much more inclined to do mortises by hand, especially for a small project like this one.

Hey, I'll take any opportunity to buy a new tool!