Diet Discussion

[Rslaugh]

True about conflicting data! Each of us are unique and that makes noting for certain. What works for some can hurt others.

An interesting read, one that I happen to agree with. Most of my research also agrees with this article.

This was actually originally posted in the Weight Loss thread. Thinking that the topic could take over that thread I'll use it to start this separate thread.

The article that Mark cites above is right on in my view. It might surprise you that the food pyramid us old timers have seen since grade school is not based on research. It was decreed from the Senate Select Committee on Nutrition and Human Needs aka The McGovern Committee during the latter stages of the committee in the mid 70's.

As now there were a lot of conflicting views on what people should eat. At one point some scientists that testified for the committee told McGovern the guidelines he was about to publish did not have any real research to support them. McGovern retorted that unlike scientists politicians responsible for taking care of us poor dumb slobs didn't have the luxury of waiting for all the research to come in thus sparking the carbs are good, fat is bad craze.

If you plot the rise of the low fat/eat whole grains/corn syrup industry hysteria against the rise in obesity in this country there is an interesting correlation. Is there a scientific link there? I don't know, but there seems to be something we are sorely lacking in this country - common sense.

It's just my opinion & I may be wrong. LOML lost over 60 lbs in the last 2 years. She has had some fairly extensive back surgery and suffers from chronic pain. The first 30 lbs or so came off strictly from changing to a low carb diet while still living a very sedentary lifestyle. She was not hungry at any point during this time. It is not a starvation diet.

When I talk of low carb, I'm talking 60 gms carb per day (a bagel) not the 160-200 commonly used by researchers. You need to be somewhere south of 100 to reset your body from carb burning mode to fat burning mode. Is it hard at first? Absolutely but it has made us both healthier and lengthened our lives. It gets much easier once you have reset your system and no crave sugar.

[All Thumbs]

Going further it is interesting what kind of research is coming in on foods found on low carb diets, like nuts. While conventional wisdom growing up was that nuts were high in fat and therefor calories and therefor fattening, turns out that recent studies have shown that the largest consumers of nuts tend to be among the lowest BMI (which by the way is also a scam, but it is what we have). A few months ago I was looking inside the cabinet of a guy that works for the same outfit as I (I don't see him much, he works in a different department) and the cabinet was filled with huge bags of nuts. And of course this guy is in incredible shape. The lesson from all of this is we have to be skeptical of what science tells us, we should not give up on centuries of practical experience without clear and overwhelming evidence.

[woodturner]

It might surprise you that the food pyramid us old timers have seen since grade school is not based on research.

It actually resulted from decades of scientific research.

The core of all these issues is that there is "research" and there is "Research". A lot of the "studies" cited for nutrition and food-related issues, included the one cited unfortunately, are not really research at all. The "studies" were done by people who have not been trained in research, do not apparently have an understanding of how to do research, and often have a bias or position to support.

Scientific research is objective, not subjective. The scientific research is conducted on large enough groups and over long enough time periods to be statistically significant. For example, the research on the effects of slight starvation on longevity was started 50 years ago, and it has only been in the last year or two that enough of the study participants passed that they had the thousands of data points necessary to reach statistically valid conclusions.

As now there were a lot of conflicting views on what people should eat.

"Views" is a good term for it, since it is really opinion. It's fine to have opinions, but just because a personal trainer goes on TV and makes claims like "high protein diets are safe" does not make all the research that essentially proves that conclusion invalid.

At one point some scientists that testified for the committee told McGovern the guidelines he was about to publish did not have any real research to support them.

If you have any references for that information, I'd like to read them. Snopes cites that as urban legend.

If you plot the rise of the low fat/eat whole grains/corn syrup industry hysteria against the rise in obesity in this country there is an interesting correlation.

I think you may be "mixing and matching" here. The research proving the benefits of low fat/whole grain diet research is extensive and on-going, while the research into corn syrup shows very different results.

Maybe the confusion is trying to put them together. No disagreement that the prepared food industry compensates with sugar for low fat, etc. but that is not what the research is showing. When the research is showing low fat and whole grain diets dramatically improve health and wellness, it's appropriately prepared grains and low fat foods - not ones where sugar has been added.

When I talk of low carb, I'm talking 60 gms carb per day (a bagel) not the 160-200 commonly used by researchers.

It's probably OK to do that short term for weight losss, but that low a level of carbs is very unhealthy long term. If a bagel is the example, that might also be part of the difference in views - processed carbs like a bagel are not what is suggested. Even a "whole grain" bagel has a lot of refined white flour in it, one of the culprits that led to the research on the benefits of whole grains.

FWIW, what works for me and fits with what is healthy according to the research is to make my own food at home, from raw grains and carbs. I make nearly everything in the crock pot. I typically make lentil stew, baked beans, chili, etc. in the crock pot. Takes 15 minutes to prepare the veggies (onions, potatoes, carrots, cylantro, etc.), wash the beans, and through it into the crock pot to cook overnight. I sometimes put two or three ounces of ham in the mix to add a little animal protein and fat. I can essentially eat as much as I want, my health numbers have improved dramatically, and I've been losing 2 to 4 lbs per week, pretty consistently.

[Black wallnut]

The research you refer to Woodturner made poor conclusions that the evidenc does not support. Cause and effect relationships are much harder to prove. Fat got a bad rap, cholesterol was thought to cause heart disease, both have been proven to not matter as once thought. It has now been discovered that dietary cholesterol does not effect us as once thought. Excess carbs turn to fat in our bodies. Carbs trigger an insulin response. Fats that do not get used generally get passed, they do not trigger an insulin response. Whole grains are better in that they take longer to digest and include fiber.

woodturner we may just have to agree to disagree. I've been on a high protien high fat, low carb diet for several years, I am not in ketosis. My numbers make my doctors very happy. It is only because I sometimes over eat that I am still holding onto excess weight. I do not draw conclusions based on my anecdotal evidence however my results support the conclusions I've reached based on what I have read. Whichever side of this discussion you fall on you can find studies supporting your position.

[Rslaugh]

I'm always interested in what others find out there on the interwebs so woodturner please send some links. Here's a good starting point for what one doctor who is dead set against the low fat/supposedly good carb craze has to say and the studies that back it up.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/

When I gave some specific posts to my doc she said you know this guy is selling a book. After she spent some time there she thanked me for the info and said she found enough there for her to really start looking into what she's been telling people.

[leehljp]

One thing I rarely see mentioned is genetics. My mom came from a large family (9 brothers and sisters) and my dad had 7 brothers and sisters. I had many great uncles and aunts who lived into their 90's - and they ate high protein / high fat diets, mostly fried meats. Home made breads used lard. Lots of salt fat and bacon. The only ones to die in their 60's were my dad's siblings who either drank fairly heavily or smoked. My dad did neither and lived to almost 79.

Genetics determine some, but the high fat and protein diets match my great uncles and aunts and my uncles and aunts also.

As to carbs and breads, I do not have celiac but I cannot eat bagels or too much bread. It will stop me up totally. Eating a big breakfast of cerial or oatmeal and fruit makes me gain weight fast, so I eat very light breakfasts - and I do not get hungry until noon or 1 PM. Back to carbs - I eat irish potatoes on occasion but not regularly. Rice is my big like in carbs, but even that is Japanese kinds of rice. I guess I eat "sweet" potatoes as much as any carb besides rice.

Lots of rules and research out there that is still bunk - or they apply / do not apply on a case by case per person.

I hate that saying over and over that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" and then those same people recommend a good healthy PORTION for breakfast. The more breakfast I eat, the hungrier I get around 10 AM! I am starving by noon, and I will gain 10 pounds in couple of weeks! Give me a small breakfast of a double cup of coffee and I will be full of energy until lunch or 2 PM, and even then not starving!

[Rslaugh]

....The more breakfast I eat, the hungrier I get around 10 AM! I am starving by noon, and I will gain 10 pounds in couple of weeks! Give me a small breakfast of a double cup of coffee and I will be full of energy until lunch or 2 PM, and even then not starving!

Lee,

Try eating an omelet and some bacon or sausage or ham. No bread, no potatoes. I bet you're not hungry till after noon.

[leehljp]

Lee,

Try eating an omelet and some bacon or sausage or ham. No bread, no potatoes. I bet you're not hungry till after noon.

Doesn't matter what I eat - protein based or gluten based. For me, it seems like my stomach just does not "wake up fast" if I do not put anything in it early.

One of my daughters is the same way. We just seem to be "wired" that way. Meds that make most people sleepy - zing us up and we can't sleep. We both can drink caffeinated drinks and sleep like a baby.

Back to eating breakfast - we do not run out of energy when we do not eat breakfast; quite the contrary. So we do not see the need to eat if we are not hungry nor out of energy . . . and especially if eating causes us to get hungrier (even protein based) and gain weight.

[Bill in Buena Park]

Interesting discussion, and one that continues in the medical community. Who knows whose research is valid? When my doctor recommended that I look into a low-carb diet 15 years ago (and he pointed me to the Atkins diet), I did some of my own investigating, being suspicious of some of the claims made in the New Diet Revolution.

I found material compiled by one Dr. Peter D'Adamo (website) on blood type being a factor, which at least for me, seemed to correlate, since I am Type O. I started at 239 lbs, and had high cholesterol and triglycerides, and after 6 months on the diet, I hit 165, cholesterol was down to 175, and my triglyceride was lower than the "normal" range. I maintained that diet and weight for nearly 7 years, before marrying the LOML who makes the best hispanic food I've ever had And now I'm a participant on the Weight Loss Thread

Will low carb work for everyone? Not according to Dr. D'Adamo. Do the other 3 diets work? Idunno - but low carb for Type O worked for me.