what a difference a blade makes

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  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20914
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    what a difference a blade makes

    New Hitachi 12" miter saw finally set up, replaced the original equipment 32-tooth blade.

    Last year I bought a Lowes close out - a CMT P12096 teflon-coated Alternate Top Bevel (ATB) 12" 96-Tooth for about $13 bucks. Wish I'd bought several.

    Here's difference in the cut:
    I took the picture with my Aven digital microscope. I used both the built-in ring lights plus some side lighting so that the finish/flatness differences would be obvious. The 96T CMT blade is on the left and the 32-T Hitachi blade is on the right. Its the same piece of wood, ripped in half and folded so they are side by side. I then cut a fraction of an inch off the end of the one on the left to get a different cut surface. Lined up the two faces so they'd be in the camera focus plane. Second picture is a higher resolution photo if you want to blow it up some more.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-29-2013, 03:23 PM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions
  • greenacres2
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 633
    • La Porte, IN
    • Ryobi BT3000

    #2
    That CMT was a great buy at $13!! Good, clean blade makes a world of difference.
    earl

    Comment

    • Stytooner
      Roll Tide RIP Lee
      • Dec 2002
      • 4301
      • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
      • BT3100

      #3
      That does look very smooth and it looks like the arbor is true as well.
      I have a but, however.
      There is a lot more surface on the right side for a glue joint. It would probably result in a stronger joint.

      I have also experienced glass smooth cuts when installing new blades. It lets you know things are working as they should with no play.

      Another benefit of such a nice blade is that there is very little chance for excessive tearout. It slices so well, that extra prep against tearout is probably not required.
      Lee

      Comment

      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20914
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #4
        both blades are brand new.

        Maybe I should keep the cuts as a reference if I think the blade needs sharpening. That's usually a problem for me, I use a blade for quite a while and I think its OK but then I put a new one in and I say, oh my, the old one really needs sharpening.
        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment

        • Stytooner
          Roll Tide RIP Lee
          • Dec 2002
          • 4301
          • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
          • BT3100

          #5
          I have stacks of blades that need a good sharpening.
          No one local does that, though I have a machine that can do that here.
          I think it would cost more to buy the correct wheels than to get my blades sharpened. I'm looking for an address where I can send all these blades to, so I don't loose my investment.
          I loose a lot of tools on my cnc machine due to dullness. Comparable in price.
          Lee

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20914
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #6
            Forrest does a good job not only on their blades but others (like Freud) as well.

            Serious woodworkers count on American-made Forrest saw blades for smooth, quiet cuts, every time... without splintering, scratching or tearouts.


            Price is not bad but you have to add shipping costs.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • Skaning
              Forum Newbie
              • Nov 2010
              • 63

              #7
              You might also look at Dynamic Saw in Buffalo, NY. They have a pretty interesting website, probably more there on sawblades than you ever wanted to know.

              Comment

              • durango dude
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2011
                • 934
                • a thousand or so feet above insanity
                • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

                #8
                wow - great illustration!

                I put a 40 tooth Freud blade on my BT - and it was a whole new world.
                (that was my impression, anyway)

                Your images prove it -----

                Comment

                • Knottscott
                  Veteran Member
                  • Dec 2004
                  • 3815
                  • Rochester, NY.
                  • 2008 Shop Fox W1677

                  #9
                  Good cutters are a key ingredient with any wood cutting tool. The blade is where the "rubber meets the road" so to speak.
                  Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

                  Comment

                  • LCHIEN
                    Internet Fact Checker
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 20914
                    • Katy, TX, USA.
                    • BT3000 vintage 1999

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Stytooner
                    That does look very smooth and it looks like the arbor is true as well.
                    I have a but, however.
                    There is a lot more surface on the right side for a glue joint. It would probably result in a stronger joint.

                    I have also experienced glass smooth cuts when installing new blades. It lets you know things are working as they should with no play.

                    Another benefit of such a nice blade is that there is very little chance for excessive tearout. It slices so well, that extra prep against tearout is probably not required.
                    Butt joints are not that good glued anyway since the end-grain -long grain glue does not hold well allegedly. long grain to long grain glue joints are much better. I suspect part of the problem is that the end grain sucks the glue our of the joint which would be exasperated by a rough joint? Supposedly the way to get a better glued butt joint is to spread some glue on the end grain and let it dry then reapply some glue and make the joint.
                    Loring in Katy, TX USA
                    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                    Comment

                    • lrr
                      Established Member
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 380
                      • Fort Collins, Colorado
                      • Ryobi BT-3100

                      #11
                      I just put a Forrest Woodworker II on my BT3100. "Wow!" seems to be the common reaction to having a new blade. And "Wow" is certainly how I describe my reaction to the Forrest.

                      I recently bought a Festool track saw for breaking down sheet goods. I had pretty much decided I could not do it with the BT3100. But, the BT3100 would still be my go-to saw for ripping smaller pieces of wood. I have been noticing that rips were getting tougher to do, yet the cuts still looked pretty clean. However, once I started seeing burn marks, I was pretty sure it was due to a dull blade, and not any alignment issues. I checked and everything did appear to be well aligned.

                      My next project really demonstrated the greatness of this blade. Recently I took on a project in oak, which always proves to be challenging for my saw. The project is a landmark plaque on a historic building in Denver that my son-in-law is renovating. The landmark plaque is a sandwich of two pieces of the 4/4 oak, with the original commemorative bronze disk (looks like a large coin) centered in a hole in the top piece of oak. I jointed one edge of both pieces, and then thickness planed just a bit. Combined they are about 1-7/8" thick now. I glued them together and then trimmed them to final size. Cutting the edge opposite the planed edge using the BT3100, it cut thru the oak sandwich like I was cutting pine. I barely had to push it to have it slide through. This blade has really given me a new appreciation for what I cut now with the BT3100.

                      I bought the 30 tooth model, since my primary use is ripping. I will probably resharpen the original combo blade the saw came with to use for occasional crosscutting, although my radial arm saw does almost all my crosscutting. I did replace my RAS blade with a 60T Amana/AGE blade I found locally on sale for $45. I am sure a Forrest would have been bettewr, but I really wanted to check out this blade. Minimal tearout on the bottom side of thje cut, and would be much cleaner if I had filled the cut in the table, since the blade is offset slightly from the previous blade and therefore is not running in a zero-clearance slot.
                      Last edited by lrr; 11-30-2013, 11:16 PM.
                      Lee

                      Comment

                      • Stytooner
                        Roll Tide RIP Lee
                        • Dec 2002
                        • 4301
                        • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        Originally posted by LCHIEN
                        Butt joints are not that good glued anyway since the end-grain -long grain glue does not hold well allegedly. long grain to long grain glue joints are much better. I suspect part of the problem is that the end grain sucks the glue our of the joint which would be exasperated by a rough joint? Supposedly the way to get a better glued butt joint is to spread some glue on the end grain and let it dry then reapply some glue and make the joint.
                        I do agree. That is why I like to use splines on miters. Simply a stronger joint.
                        I remember when I first started out, a few of my projects used corrugated nails and glue. Most came out looking pretty sad. It is difficult to use corrugated nails in the first place. I soon discovered how easy splines are and feel much better about my miter joints.
                        Lee

                        Comment

                        • LCHIEN
                          Internet Fact Checker
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 20914
                          • Katy, TX, USA.
                          • BT3000 vintage 1999

                          #13
                          i used corrugated nails when i was a kid ... even then I knew it wasn't too good, although I did not know what was better.
                          Loring in Katy, TX USA
                          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                          Comment

                          • JimD
                            Veteran Member
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 4187
                            • Lexington, SC.

                            #14
                            I have a Hitachi dual bevel CMS. The laser stopped working but the saw has been a useful addition. I bought a higher tooth count blade when I got the saw several years ago. There is some runout but I suspect the blade is at least contributing. I think it is also a Hitachi.

                            I cut 4x4s on my old 10 inch CMS. It leaves a sliver but a handsaw takes care of that pretty quick.

                            I have a CMT blade for the bt3100 and I was impressed. I also like their blade cleaner. I guess I should look for a CMT for the Hitachi. I noticed some blades on sale at Lowe's yesterday, I think they were DeWalt. I've had good luck with their stuff so I also might go that way.

                            Comment

                            • atgcpaul
                              Veteran Member
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 4055
                              • Maryland
                              • Grizzly 1023SLX

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Stytooner
                              I have stacks of blades that need a good sharpening...I'm looking for an address where I can send all these blades to, so I don't loose my investment.


                              I used Scott's Sharpening to sharpen my BT blade, another Freud blade, and my SD206 dado stack. Price was comparable to other places and he did an excellent job. I know a lot of guys on Woodnet use him, too.

                              Now that I have a WWII, I'll probably send it back to Forrest since they're closer to me. They are more expensive than the others, though.

                              Paul

                              Comment

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