Wood magazine reviews pocket hole jigs Oct 2013

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  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20920
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    Wood magazine reviews pocket hole jigs Oct 2013

    The issue of Wood magazine that came for this month has reviewed pocket hole jigs and they like the $200 heavy-duty Porter Cable 560 Quik-jig benchtop-only jig. They also liked the Kreg K4MS and the R3 pocket jig for overall good features and easy use.

    according to them don't get a craftsman or general tools jig. low scoring in all areas. Drill Master (HF) fared only slightly better.

    Most interesting is that a new Kreg K5 is in the works for later this year. It will feature a front operated locking lever which they had briefly a couple of years ago but was tied up in court injunction by a patent troll and apparently they have either won or licensed the tech. Anyone know? Also it looks like they have improved storage a bit. Same $140 price as the K4 (so that may cannibalize sales for a few months!)

    Guess we discussed it in July: http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...highlight=kreg
    Bad news: doesn't include the face clamps anymore in the kit I think they cost about $22 individually.

    Sneak peeks i found on the web at Lee Valley and HIghland woodworking, respectively:





    I have an older K3000 without dust collection and front clamp. Tempting!

    Unfortunately Kreg keeps a very tight rein on its dealers. You never, ever see Kreg stuff on sale or discounted and if they have any promotion they'll throw in some screws or an extra bit or pocket jig with the big kits at list price.
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-11-2013, 12:23 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions
  • JimD
    Veteran Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 4187
    • Lexington, SC.

    #2
    I am happy with my Penn State all metal pocket screw jig. I don't use it a lot and it stores in a smaller finger jointed wood box it came in. I probably have a lifetime supply of screws (from when Sears had them at a really good price). I have the unit with the toggle clamp built in + the piece that lets you secure just the angle drilling part on longer work with a clamp. The unit you picture would be faster but that is the only advantage I see.

    I use the little Kreg shelf hole drilling jig. I was surprised at how well thought out it is. They get a lot for a hunk of plastic with some metal pieces at wear locations but they make a nice product.

    Jim

    Comment

    • sweensdv
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2002
      • 2862
      • WI
      • Baileigh TS-1040P-50

      #3
      The Kreg K5 has been available for purchase since last month. Probably that article in WOOD was written and put together when September was "later this year".

      I have the K4 and while the K5 has an easier to use locking mechanism I think the K4 is a pretty sweet setup also. I like the fact that is comes with the a face clamp which IMO makes it a better bang for the buck. The storage compartments featured with the K5 are handy but small. I built the Kreg JigŪ Storage Unit for my K4 which offers plenty of storage area for clamps, bits, screws and other accessories. Plans for this unit are available at the Kreg website however you must open an account and sign-in in order to view them. The plans call for using the Kreg Micro Pocket Drill Guide to build the storage unit however conventional assembly methods can also be used to make this if one doesn't want to plunk down the $50 for the Micro Pocket Drill Guide.
      _________________________
      "Have a Great Day, unless you've made other plans"

      Comment

      • LinuxRandal
        Veteran Member
        • Feb 2005
        • 4889
        • Independence, MO, USA.
        • bt3100

        #4
        They lost the patent troll case (don't know about appeals) and that caused the change to the K4 from the K3. By changing the clamping mechanism, my understanding is they designed around the restrictions that the patent covered.


        What I miss, are the video's that were on Youtube from Woodentoolcompany, where he showed adapting either jig to a foot operated pedal. He had a few more, like automating it, but wasn't getting the views and "likes" to his video, quick enough to get an income stream from it so he dropped the channel and removed the video's.
        She couldn't tell the difference between the escape pod, and the bathroom. We had to go back for her.........................Twice.

        Comment

        • durango dude
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 934
          • a thousand or so feet above insanity
          • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

          #5
          I have the R3 system - and use it when I really need a screw -----

          It works fine. Not inspiring - but hey - for $40, I generally don't expect inspiring.

          The more I do woodwork, the more I despise having screws in my work.

          Comment

          • atgcpaul
            Veteran Member
            • Aug 2003
            • 4055
            • Maryland
            • Grizzly 1023SLX

            #6
            Originally posted by durango dude
            The more I do woodwork, the more I despise having screws in my work.
            Yes, drives me nuts when I see Scott Phillips on American Woodworker use them willy nilly on even the most refined of projects.

            Loring, I guess if you use them a lot, then an upgrade would be good. I guess I'm cheap; I've been using the same $20 mini Kreg jig and the same drill bit for years and they haven't disappointed me yet.

            Paul

            Comment

            • All Thumbs
              Established Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 322
              • Penn Hills, PA
              • BT3K/Saw-Stop

              #7
              Originally posted by LinuxRandal
              They lost the patent troll case (don't know about appeals) and that caused the change to the K4 from the K3.
              I thought they had "won:"

              Comment

              • LCHIEN
                Internet Fact Checker
                • Dec 2002
                • 20920
                • Katy, TX, USA.
                • BT3000 vintage 1999

                #8
                yeah I was mostly kidding. The kit I have does an excellent job.
                Not having to reach around behind the unit is mostly only an advantage when doing large, wide boards.
                And the vac port is nice but not a total necessity. You'll get a pile of sawdust in the front with the old unit or with no vac.

                But you kinda admire the changes and improvements they make with each successive model.

                And I do see on the Lee Valley website they have stock for immediate delivery.
                Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-12-2013, 12:28 AM.
                Loring in Katy, TX USA
                If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                Comment

                • LinuxRandal
                  Veteran Member
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 4889
                  • Independence, MO, USA.
                  • bt3100

                  #9
                  Originally posted by All Thumbs
                  Good to know. Then it makes NO sense to me as to WTH they moved the handle back to the rear.

                  On another note, the video's are back on Youtube under the name Wooden tool man.
                  She couldn't tell the difference between the escape pod, and the bathroom. We had to go back for her.........................Twice.

                  Comment

                  • LCHIEN
                    Internet Fact Checker
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 20920
                    • Katy, TX, USA.
                    • BT3000 vintage 1999

                    #10
                    Originally posted by LinuxRandal
                    Good to know. Then it makes NO sense to me as to WTH they moved the handle back to the rear.

                    On another note, the video's are back on Youtube under the name Wooden tool man.
                    after they were first sued, they moved the handle back to the rear to avoid an injunction that might have halted all jig sales.

                    The man, Joon Park is what they call a patent troll. Basically collecting patents of possibly dubious nature and suing companies in related businesses without ever entering that business himself. For example his patents failed to disclose that Kreg made and sold pocket hole jigs under patents for a long time. During the following trial it was shown that he was well aware of the Kreg jigs - Kreg was able to produce invoices showing he had bought two of them. So in failing to disclose "prior art" he was able to patent features that were not his original ideas. One of the things he did patent that was potentially damaging was the front locking handle so that, I think, i why Kreg withdrew that design.

                    Patent law requires one to do the research into current patents relating to your invention (so called prior art) and disclose how your invention differs from that when applying for a patent. It is no longer the job of the patent examiner (who works for the US patent office). Unfortunately if you are sued for infringement, you must now prove that the alleged patents fails to reveal previous patents. A job that can take months and years to resolve even if you are in the right. THis can put you out of business if the plaintiff gets an injunction. This is why patent trolls can make so much money - because of the disruption of legitimate businesses, it's like blackmail.

                    In the ensuing trial the jury voted that Kreg did not violate the Park patents. However, Park had the possibility of appealing, although with a significantly reduced chance of a case. In the end Kreg paid him $300,000 for the patents he had and a promise not to appeal. Basically cheaper to pay $300000 and not take a chance on additional litigation with a small chance of going awry and avoiding legal expenses,

                    In a case like this both side can legitimately claim victory of sorts.
                    Kreg is able to continue making jigs with all rights secured.
                    Park is paid $300,000 for patents and is out only lawyers expenses and has never risked any money to build, test, promote manufacture and distribute the product he claims to have invented.
                    Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-12-2013, 01:50 AM.
                    Loring in Katy, TX USA
                    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                    Comment

                    • leehljp
                      Just me
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 8429
                      • Tunica, MS
                      • BT3000/3100

                      #11
                      Good write up Loring. In so many words, a company can basically re-patent a current patent with the same design but different words, and the liability of proof falls on the original patent owner to prove the second patent owner either copied or how they are not the same.

                      Dependency on the time lagg is the tactic Google and Samsung took against Oracle and Apple. Apple has finally won the basic patent schemes against Samsung, BUT Samsung's infringements are on/in their older models, which are basically a moot point now.


                      The Patent system does need a major major overhaul. What scares me is that there is a fairly good size group of people who think that there should not be any "patents" and every idea should be everyone's - think Google. And even Samsung. Samsung was recently discussing how their R&D was so low - Their production is based on "Market Watch" - see what is selling and go to that market. IN Samsungs case, it is not patent trolling, but a matter of 1. knowing that the basic patent will be old stuff by the time it gets ruled upon, OR 2. Samsung will have found a different way to do the same thing by the time it gets to court.

                      Trolls, time and work-arounds work against the current patent owners.
                      Hank Lee

                      Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                      Comment

                      • jdon
                        Established Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 401
                        • Snoqualmie, Wash.
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        The Patent system does need a major major overhaul.
                        At the risk of diverting the thread: http://www.google.com/patents?id=hhY...page&q&f=false

                        Comment

                        • Brian G
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 993
                          • Bloomington, Minnesota.
                          • G0899

                          #13
                          Originally posted by sweensdv
                          I built the Kreg JigŪ Storage Unit for my K4 which offers plenty of storage area for clamps, bits, screws and other accessories. Plans for this unit are available at the Kreg website however you must open an account and sign-in in order to view them.
                          I was able to view it via a Google search for Kreg Jig Storage Unit. The first result was a direct link to the PDF on the Kreg website. No account needed.

                          I have the K3 Master system, the Micro Jig, and a few add-ons. I don't see a need to change to the new system, but I like the clamp adjustment mechanism on the new one much more than the older versions.
                          Last edited by Brian G; 10-14-2013, 02:25 PM.
                          Brian

                          Comment

                          • sweensdv
                            Veteran Member
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 2862
                            • WI
                            • Baileigh TS-1040P-50

                            #14
                            [QUOTE=Brian G;524117]I was able to view it via a Google search for Kreg Jig Storage Unit. The first result was a direct link to the PDF on the Kreg website. No account needed. QUOTE]

                            Cool, here's the link.
                            _________________________
                            "Have a Great Day, unless you've made other plans"

                            Comment

                            • Carpenter96
                              Established Member
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 178
                              • Barrie ON Canada
                              • BT 3000

                              #15
                              I have the original K3 master Jig kit and the only part that the new jig has over mine is the dust collection. My students were using my Kreg jig and it fell on the floor, part of the bushing was broken but still operable. I called Kreg and wanted to buy a new bushing. They said no way we will send you a new jig free of charge including shipping. I will promote Kreg over others because I believe they have a great product and amazing customer service. I have benn using the Kreg jig for 14 years.
                              Bob

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