Should There Be A Charge For An Estimate?

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  • cabinetman
    Gone but not Forgotten RIP
    • Jun 2006
    • 15218
    • So. Florida
    • Delta

    Should There Be A Charge For An Estimate?

    That would eliminate the tire kickers. Of course, there will always be someone that will do a free estimate. Do you think perspective clients appreciate a craftsman that values his/her time?

    .
  • JoeyGee
    Veteran Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 1509
    • Sylvania, OH, USA.
    • BT3100-1

    #2
    Depends on what the item/service is. In general, I would say no. I know I would not pay to get an estimate for most things I would spend money on.

    If the item/service was something higher end and the item/service was in higher demand, maybe, but I doubt it. I just don't have the need or want for such things.

    I can see the perspective of the seller/provider not wanting to waste time, but to me, that's part of their business and should be included as part of their cost. That's one of the MANY reasons I do not want to be self employed.
    Joe

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    • Daryl
      Senior Member
      • May 2004
      • 831
      • .

      #3
      If you want a simple 12x16 addition built on your house, I will drive by, take a look and give you an estimate. If you want that same addition kidney shaped with vaulted ceilings, bay windows, five heating zones and a couple more pages of wants, you should expect that same estimate to cost a little.
      Sometimes the old man passed out and left the am radio on so I got to hear the oldie songs and current event kind of things

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      • LinuxRandal
        Veteran Member
        • Feb 2005
        • 4889
        • Independence, MO, USA.
        • bt3100

        #4
        Typically, when I am getting estimates, it is for a couple of reasons. Bidding the job (who gets it), meeting who is going to do the job (want to make sure it isn't someone who makes your teeth grind), and seeing if there is something else I am missing about the job (don't want to be surprised as by the bidding, I SHOULD have an idea of everything that has to happen).

        For us, I would think it is more the Construction stuff, then the Craftsman (I would think that would be us, as woodworkers). I know a LOT of roofers, and gave my mom their companies. One company was recommended by a friend, who builds homes for sports figures, and their bid, was $11k more then the next one, and it wasn't in the materials section.
        No, you can certainly charge for it, but I wouldn't pay for one. (and they should know you charge for it up front)
        She couldn't tell the difference between the escape pod, and the bathroom. We had to go back for her.........................Twice.

        Comment

        • cabinetman
          Gone but not Forgotten RIP
          • Jun 2006
          • 15218
          • So. Florida
          • Delta

          #5
          Originally posted by LinuxRandal
          No, you can certainly charge for it, but I wouldn't pay for one. (and they should know you charge for it up front)
          I think the average person desiring an estimate figures that if there is no charge indicated up front, that an amount will be included as part of the job. If there isn't, my theory is that if a person works for nothing that sooner or later he/she will likely have a problem buying groceries and paying bills.

          Scenario: A perspective customer calls for an in home estimate...

          Customer on the phone..."Do you give free estimates?"

          Answer..."Not if that's all you want".

          Believe it or not, some call just to get free estimates, and compare bids that way. Believe it or not, some call for an estimate after they let the job just to see if they are getting ripped off.

          A usual scenario for an in-home estimate includes carrying out to the site, pictures of work done. Catalogs of ideas for the type of project. Laminate, veneer, solid wood samples, paint colors and schemes, and finish samples that might be appropriate. Catalogs depicting various hardware selections. By the time all is loaded and carried in, you can't forget a sketch pad, tape measure, contract documents, and various writing instruments. All in all, a check list is very helpful so as not to forget anything.

          The estimate may include doing on the spot drawings. Hopefully, if all goes well, they get written up and I get a deposit. Or, more detailed drawings may have to be produced, and for that they do get charged (but the cost is deducted if the work is performed). On numerous occasions, I have done scaled drawings, and within a short time get visited by other vendors to get a price from my set of drawings. Of course, the name block would be cut out. I went to a watermarked paper that disclosed my business name if copied or reproduced.

          .

          Comment

          • cwsmith
            Veteran Member
            • Dec 2005
            • 2737
            • NY Southern Tier, USA.
            • BT3100-1

            #6
            I think that it very much depends on the job.

            For example, if someone is just looking for framing of a garage or a room or something like installing a couple of windows or doors, then it doesn't take much. Usually the fellow will have enough experience to know or to even to give you a quick calculation. However, it also needs to be understoond (or made to be understood to the client), that "out of the ordinary" might well require a change in the "estimate".

            But, if a client has asked you to do something really custom, like making him or her a piece of furniture or a kitchen remodel. Well, that is going to take some significant time in both the layout and planning, material estimates, review of current hardware and costs, etc. For that, I would certainly think that you would want to charge and have that clearly understood that all that time should be charged.

            For the latter, working up the estimate is a job in itself and for that "planning" job you might well have a fixed estimate.

            This really would be no different than have some kind of electronics serviced. Back in the day when such things were done, the techincian would often tell you, "It's going to cost $40, just to open the box!"

            CWS
            Think it Through Before You Do!

            Comment

            • Tom Slick
              Veteran Member
              • May 2005
              • 2913
              • Paso Robles, Calif, USA.
              • sears BT3 clone

              #7
              I've seen where the cost of the estimate is refunded if they get the job. I think it depends on the job. If it is something that requires a lot of planning then it should be billed. If it is fairly simple / routine bid then it shouldn't be charged.
              Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison

              Comment

              • gsmittle
                Veteran Member
                • Aug 2004
                • 2784
                • St. Louis, MO, USA.
                • BT 3100

                #8
                Originally posted by Tom Slick
                I've seen where the cost of the estimate is refunded if they get the job. I think it depends on the job. If it is something that requires a lot of planning then it should be billed. If it is fairly simple / routine bid then it shouldn't be charged.
                I agree. For things like roofing or carpeting, I would expect the estimate/bid to be free. Those kinds of jobs are almost like commodities.

                I contacted a piano tech once about possibly restoring a "free" piano. It was $75 just to cross the threshold, deducted from the cost if he did the job. That's OK with me; he's a specialist and the job could take weeks of his time. (I still haven't had him look—too afraid of what it will take to get the "free" piano playable again.)

                g.
                Smit

                "Be excellent to each other."
                Bill & Ted

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                • akronee
                  Forum Newbie
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 36
                  • Denver, CO
                  • Craftsman 315.228110

                  #9
                  I'm getting some concrete work done. I got 5 bids for the job, all sourced from a reputable local referral listing, so I already know everyone on the list has a history and isn't fly-by-night. That also means I'm not expecting any low-ball. I'm quite comfortable because 4 of the quotes were within $300 of each other. So if someone didn't do a free estimate, they wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to give any estimate at all, since there would have been several takers otherwise. Also because of how close the prices were, I'm not choosing the lowest, I'm choosing the most "complete" estimate of the 4. I'm looking forward to the new patio.

                  Comment

                  • vaking
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 1428
                    • Montclair, NJ, USA.
                    • Ryobi BT3100-1

                    #10
                    Preparing an estimate takes time so it is never really free. Whoever gives "free" estimate really factors this cost into the price of a bid. If this is an estimate for a standard service (roof repair) - most people will try to get 4-5 estimates before choosing the contractor. From the contractor point of view it means you should expect to produce 4-5 estimates to get 1 actual contract. If the cost to make an estimate is so small that you can factor in 5 estimates and the price on a bid amount will not change much - I would provide those estimates for free. If this is a custom job where making estimate is involved - I would charge for an estimate separately but with understanding that estimate cost is deductible if the contract is signed.
                    There may be also local specifics. For instance - near me the are towns of Clifton and Montclair. Clifton is full of standard houses - nothing special. Montclair has mostly old houses, Victorian style. Even new houses built in Montclair recently are built in the same style - the town tries to maintain its Victorian spirit. There are painting contractors who do standard house painting jobs and there are painting contractors who specialize in maintaining the "Victorian touch". If I were the contractor with Victorian specialty - I would provide free estimate to people in Montclair but charge for an estimate in Clifton. Reason is simple - simple jobs in Clifton are not my specialty. Chances are for these jobs my estimates will generate less contracts than I expect on average.
                    Alex V

                    Comment

                    • chopnhack
                      Veteran Member
                      • Oct 2006
                      • 3779
                      • Florida
                      • Ryobi BT3100

                      #11
                      C-man, I have seen you raise this issue in the past - or at least the fact that you were getting your work ripped off and then shopped around. Kitchen cabinet bids are a commodity, I don't think you should charge for them as it would limit your work. The higher end custom work, however, where the design is essentially what you are selling needs to be protected. For that, you may want to look into having the client sign a clause like the interior designers do. And of course, they have their design fee upfront regardless of whether you have them do the work. I would suggest that you leave out some crucial pieces of the puzzle such that if the client decides to use your design, the other shop will have to do enough work to make them think twice in the future from working off of your sketches.
                      I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

                      Comment

                      • wardprobst
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 681
                        • Wichita Falls, TX, USA.
                        • Craftsman 22811

                        #12
                        It's frustrating to have someone abuse your time for free estimates. We haven't done free estimates for years but pianos have 12,000 parts and are generally at least 10 to 20 years old before the real wear sets in. If the client decides to have the work done while we are out we will save a trip and they will save the cost of that trip. In our work proposals can take hours to put together and if you factor in driving time, consult time and diagnosis it is pretty futile to give that away. We actually began to get more work when we started charging for estimates. In other fields, I wouldn't care to speculate. I think we all have to make the best decisions we can and live with the consequences. We did recently do a proposal for a long time church customer on a piano we had seen frequently for no charge. They used our estimate to get money from a donor and hired a cheaper bidder who doesn't have the qualifications to do the job. They won't get the results we could give them but it is their money. It hurt but we don't depend upon one client for a living fortunately. What goes around comes around eventually.
                        DP
                        www.wardprobst.com

                        Comment

                        • cwsmith
                          Veteran Member
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 2737
                          • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                          • BT3100-1

                          #13
                          Cabinetman,

                          I guess I didn't give much thought to the kind of work you do, sorry!

                          So with that particularly in mind, I would definitely have a charge for your estimate. From my perspective (if I understand your work correctly), it isn't so much an estimate as it is a design function.

                          I've only had that done once, and the local company had to send a fellow out, take measurements, and bearing in mind access, windows, and general workflow, come up with cabinet and countertop designs that would be to our liking. He offered his expertise to what would and wouldn't work and also our material and cabinet design choices as well as some options.

                          That's a considerable amount of work in itself... and for that, a person should definitely be paid.

                          I'm not much for people seeking professional help, only to then take the "ideas and experience" of that craftsman and making the purchase from someone who is much cheaper, mostly because they don't have that expertise. IMO, that's sort of theft of intellectual property.

                          I hope this is helpful,

                          CWS
                          Think it Through Before You Do!

                          Comment

                          • capncarl
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 3564
                            • Leesburg Georgia USA
                            • SawStop CTS

                            #14
                            Providing the customer with is an estimate is like advertisements in the paper, web pages, catalogs, circulars, sign in front of the building, greeters at the front door, parking lots, these are all cost of doing business, even down to paper towels, soap, and toilet paper in the rest room. Unless your business has a "menu" of costs that the customer could use to make his price selections, what are you going to do, just hope someone wanders in to your shop and chooses your company to do their job? Free rough estimates do not have to be a final price with all the parts, designs, shipping costs and permits, and the customer should be aware of this. The customer needs a ball park estimate to see if they can afford your services. If a customer is just fishing for ideas so they can do the job themselves and want your estimate for plans, shame on them, and shame on you for providing enough detail for them to do that. Detail plans come later.
                            capncarl

                            Comment

                            • Ed62
                              The Full Monte
                              • Oct 2006
                              • 6022
                              • NW Indiana
                              • BT3K

                              #15
                              I think it depends on what kind of work you're doing. I always felt that if I were to give someone an estimate on a new roof, I could charge a reasonable amount for the estimate. But the estimate would include an education of the prospective customer. By telling him why I would do this or that, which roofing and other particulars would best work for him (and why), and giving him options along with questions to ask any other future bidders on the job, I have a right to charge for my time. The cost of estimates would be deducted from my price if the customer opted to go with me.

                              I wouldn't want to become known as someone who worked for peanuts, but as someone who would give the customer all the information he needs to make a good decision. I think once you do that, the customer sees you as someone who knows his business, and you're more likely to get the job. If they're only interested in the lowest price (and many are), they can get someone working out of a beat up pickup truck who probably does not have insurance or a license.

                              Ed
                              Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

                              For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

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