Electrical Serge took out Water Heater

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  • Ian57
    Forum Newbie
    • Sep 2012
    • 42
    • Cocoa, Fl.
    • Delta 34-455 Contractors Saw

    Electrical Serge took out Water Heater

    Hi guys
    Can you help me. The transformer apparently spiked. The power company have replaced it. The spike took out a lot of things in the house. But the main one is the water heater. Is there anything I can do in the short term to get this heater working? Unfortunately money is very tight and until the electric company pay up under the anti surge protection I am stuck.
    I hope I have this in question in the right place.
    Cheers
    Ian
  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20913
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    #2
    I'm not an expert but Electric Water heaters generally have two failure mechanisms
    1. tanks rusts thru, requires a new heater as there's no way to save the tank
    2. electrical failure - heater rods (elements) go out or thermostat breaks.

    Given that it broke in a power surge and I'll bet there's no water laying around its probably #2.

    I think that probably either the heater elements or the thermostat may be replaceable separately. You might check with a repairman and this would probably be way more economical than a new heater, unless the heater is on its last legs (10-15 years old and likely to rust thru in a couple of years anyway) in which case its probably better to replace the whole heater.

    You might even be able to DIY: http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/how...ent/index.html
    would need basic electrical trouble shooting ability and a electrical multimeter to to determine if its the thermostat or heater element at fault. Both would be replaceable in place without emptying or removing the tank.
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-08-2013, 11:43 PM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

    Comment

    • Ian57
      Forum Newbie
      • Sep 2012
      • 42
      • Cocoa, Fl.
      • Delta 34-455 Contractors Saw

      #3
      Thanks

      The heater is less than 3 years old. so If can find out what the problem is. I might be able to do the repairs myself.

      Comment

      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20913
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #4
        I assume you checked and the circuit breaker is OK?
        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment

        • Ian57
          Forum Newbie
          • Sep 2012
          • 42
          • Cocoa, Fl.
          • Delta 34-455 Contractors Saw

          #5
          Yes I did that the surge also took out a few other appliances. Unfortunatly.

          Comment

          • mpc
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2005
            • 979
            • Cypress, CA, USA.
            • BT3000 orig 13amp model

            #6
            What type of water heater is it? Many newer units have much more electronics compared to the older style that had always-lit pilot lights. The newer units - those that are extra energy efficient because they don't use pilot lights - have an electronic controller board that in turn controls the gas flow and also initiates the flame. On such a water heater, repairs typically occur at a module level: the electronic board, the gas on/off valve, the spark/ignition generator, etc. Follow the AC cord into the unit (with the cord unplugged from the electrical outlet for safety!) and whatever it connects to is likely toast. Eyeball the electronic board carefully... often surges will have made a small electrical component explode. You'll see something like:
            a: 2 (or more) wires standing up from the circuit board just ending in the air - 'cause whatever they used to be part of isn't there any more. Capacitors, resistors, diodes, and transistors (3 wires), typically.

            b: something that looks like it once upon a time was tightly rolled up thin brown paper (like paper from an old grocery bag) plus thin metal also in the roll. This once upon a time was a capacitor. Capacitors are like little electrical sponges or little rechargeable batteries: they absorb electricity when the voltage is high, and then give it back as the voltage drops, helping to even out the average voltage. It this case, they'll be found near a group of 2 or 4 diodes that convert the 60 cycle AC coming from the wall outlet into direct current for the rest of the electronics. A surge ends up over-volting the capacitor and it pops apart.

            c: a small cylinder shaped metal can, with a thin rubber/plastic glove around it... and the top of the can is bulged or busted... or brown goop is oozing from the bottom or ends of the cylinder. This was an electrolytic capacitor - a "bigger sponge" compared to item b above. Common failures. Even without over-volting or surges; a while back a whole bunch of faulty electrolytic capacitors were manufactured (missing one internal chemical that helps stabilize the electrolyte - the brown goop inside - from what I understand) and these capacitors build up internal pressure until the metal can splits or bulges out of shape. Very common failure in computer motherboards and power supplies too. And often very easy and inexpensive to repair - just swap the capacitor with another one; they're readily available and only require basic soldering skills.

            d: a small glass fuse either clipped to or soldered onto the circuit board. If you are lucky this is all that's wrong.

            e: transistors or integrated circuits (ICs, the small plastic or metal squares/rectangles with many wires)... if these fry there is often no external sign of damage. And, especially in the case of the ICs, the identification markings are "house numbers" which are pretty much useless. So it's virtually impossible to obtain replacements. Many ICs on controller circuit boards are really small 1-chip computers with internal programming so only the original manufacturer can get replacements with the programming.

            mpc

            Comment

            • rcplaneguy
              Forum Newbie
              • Nov 2012
              • 37

              #7
              My fairly new electric hot water heater has a box with fairly sophisticated electronics controlling load, usage, timing, etc. Much more likely to fail from over voltage surge.

              Comment

              • greenacres2
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 633
                • La Porte, IN
                • Ryobi BT3000

                #8
                I think Loring is right on target.

                I know nothing of water heaters, but i'd begin my approach the same way I've learned from here to approach a tool problem...

                Copy the brand, model number, serial number, date of manufacture from the appliance.
                Go to ereplacementparts.com or similar site
                Find my appliance
                Review the parts drawings
                Most of the online parts sites will have a few common trouble parts that show up pictured in the margin--often that's a clue because it's what fails the most in that specific model.

                Good luck.

                earl

                Comment

                • woodturner
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 2047
                  • Western Pennsylvania
                  • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                  #9
                  Edit: He doesn't actually say it's an electric heater, some of us inferred that. So, OP, is it an electric or gas water heater?

                  Originally posted by mpc
                  What type of water heater is it? Many newer units have much more electronics compared to the older style that had always-lit pilot lights. The newer units - those that are extra energy efficient because they don't use pilot lights - have an electronic controller board that in turn controls the gas flow and also initiates the flame.
                  That was my first reaction, too - but he said he has an electric water heater.

                  Electric water heaters are basically just a simple thermostat and a couple of resistive heaters, little or no electronics.

                  The only thing I can think of that might have failed would be the thermostat. If he can figure out how to (carefully!) bypass the thermostat, he should be able to confirm that is the problem. If the heater works with the thermostat bypassed, it's the thermostat that is faulty.

                  Be VERY careful doing this - if you just short out the thermostat and leave it, the tank may overheat, and if the T&P valve is not operating correctly, the tank can explode. Just short it out for a few minutes to test it, don't try to do this as a work around to get hot water.
                  Last edited by woodturner; 11-09-2013, 08:29 AM.
                  --------------------------------------------------
                  Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                  Comment

                  • Daryl
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2004
                    • 831
                    • .

                    #10
                    I wouldn't try fixing it. Along with the elements it could of also fried the wiring. Maybe your home owners insurance will cover the cost and they can then seek reimbursement from your electric company. Other wise go ahead and then hope the electric company will be fair about reimbursing your costs.
                    Sometimes the old man passed out and left the am radio on so I got to hear the oldie songs and current event kind of things

                    Comment

                    • Stytooner
                      Roll Tide RIP Lee
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 4301
                      • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
                      • BT3100

                      #11
                      We have had a couple lightning strikes over the years. First one was rather mild and only effected a few small items.
                      The last one did a lot more damage. We do have a deductible on our insurance of course, but they pretty much covered everything including the pump house that blew up like it had a bomb inside it. I was still picking up shards of the siding in the lawn for years afterward.
                      I'd say get everything replaced on the insurance's dime and let them recoup from the power company.
                      I know lightning is a bit different than a surge in that it also destroys feed lines, but especially with a water heater, you do not know if all the safeties are still functional.
                      A water heater explosion can have a much more devastating effect than just a blown up pump house. The water heater is IN YOUR HOUSE.
                      Lee

                      Comment

                      • Ian57
                        Forum Newbie
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 42
                        • Cocoa, Fl.
                        • Delta 34-455 Contractors Saw

                        #12
                        It is an electric water heater

                        Comment

                        • Hellrazor
                          Veteran Member
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 2091
                          • Abyss, PA
                          • Ridgid R4512

                          #13

                          Comment

                          • cwsmith
                            Veteran Member
                            • Dec 2005
                            • 2737
                            • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                            • BT3100-1

                            #14
                            Before I did anything (no sense in stumbling around), I'd check with the WH's manufacturer. I can't speak for every brand, but on my GE there is an 800 number.

                            Ask if there is any kind of surge protection and express that you are NOT looking for warranty replacement, to get them on the defensive; but that you are looking for a possible quick fix that would get this back in service as soon as possible.

                            (I'm thinking that the circuitry may be fused or designed so some minor component would blow, thus protecting the other more expensive components.)

                            CWS
                            Think it Through Before You Do!

                            Comment

                            • Stytooner
                              Roll Tide RIP Lee
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 4301
                              • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
                              • BT3100

                              #15
                              That is good point, however I don't think they would tell you about anything like that. Certainly not like years ago when things were easy to work on. Today we have cheaper appliances that are not really user serviceable. Only for the really savvy and even then, it is a gamble. Add in possible proprietary parts that you cannot get documentation on and the whole task becomes unrealistic, especially from a safety aspect.

                              The cost of a water heater is relatively low on the appliance scale. Insurance or the Electric company should ultimately pay, so I say don't play around with the Families safety. Use savings to get that thing.

                              Then recoup. I can assure you if I were in the same spot, I would do the same.
                              Replace an electric water heater after a surge or lightning strike.
                              It is simply the safe bet.
                              Lee

                              Comment

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