Is my old Dakota dead?

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  • GPA61
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2004
    • 709
    • Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    • BT 3100 & JET JWTS

    Is my old Dakota dead?

    Hey guys, any mechanics in the forum?
    I found water/coolant in my oil and quite a bit of white goop in the oil cap.
    I do not think I have driven the truck for more than 25 miles with this problem .(2.5 miles to work). Had to add coolant but found no leaks so i thought, oh no!!
    The coolant in the radiator looks clean, the truck runs fine no steam coming out of the
    tail pipe no overheating (hard to tell when you only drive it 2.5 miles to work), just kidding,
    I had it idling for i good while the other day and the needle never got past the middle of the temp. gauge or a little below that. I pulled the plugs and they all look fine.

    I think there is good amount of coolant getting in the oil ( about a half quart overfilled)
    before I do a compression test I wanted your input.

    I have a 1989 Dodge Dakota with a 3.9 engine.
    Blown head gasket? Intake gasket? Time to junk it?

    Thank you for any info or advise.
    Claudio
  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20914
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    #2
    search google for coolant in oil for a bunch of discussions probably doesn't matter too much what kind of car.

    not a mechanic but sounds like head gasket.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

    Comment

    • gsmittle
      Veteran Member
      • Aug 2004
      • 2784
      • St. Louis, MO, USA.
      • BT 3100

      #3
      Not a mechanic, but my dad was. Sounds like a head gasket.

      g.
      Smit

      "Be excellent to each other."
      Bill & Ted

      Comment

      • Cochese
        Veteran Member
        • Jun 2010
        • 1988

        #4
        Third on the head gasket. Possible cracked block or head, but the gasket is much more likely.
        I have a little blog about my shop

        Comment

        • durango dude
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 934
          • a thousand or so feet above insanity
          • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

          #5
          head gasket that's my guess.

          Mechanic will charge you a good bit to take care of this problem (more than what the truck is worth). It's a tough, nasty do-it-yourself job ---- but you have a Dodge Dakota when you're done. That's worth something (well - if you like Dodges).

          If you're doing the head gaskets - you might as well do all the gaskets ----- so make sure you have a couple of days, a darn good torque wrench, gasket sealant, coolant, and oil (flush both). Replace all fluids, thermostat, and oil filter.

          Be careful on sequence/order for torquing ---- consult Haynes/Chiltons with questions.

          I had a Dakota --- miss the rumble that engine made.

          Don't miss all the maintenance (I bought a 4Runner with a V-8 --- it's much nicer).
          Last edited by durango dude; 03-09-2014, 10:31 AM.

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          • TB Roye
            Veteran Member
            • Jan 2004
            • 2969
            • Sacramento, CA, USA.
            • BT3100

            #6
            Intake manifold gasket is another option, Plastic intake manifold? Had that problem with my 86 S-15 Jimmy

            Tom
            Last edited by TB Roye; 03-08-2014, 08:21 PM.

            Comment

            • GPA61
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2004
              • 709
              • Rancho Cucamonga, CA
              • BT 3100 & JET JWTS

              #7
              Thank you guys. I guess the only way to really know what is going on is to take it to a mechanic but like Durango Dude said it might not be worth it. I had it for 14 years, so maybe time to put it to rest. Too bad, the one thing I like the most is that it has a long bed.
              Claudio

              Comment

              • LCHIEN
                Internet Fact Checker
                • Dec 2002
                • 20914
                • Katy, TX, USA.
                • BT3000 vintage 1999

                #8
                Maybe if you buy the parts, you can get a local high school or trade school to fix it for free or little monies.

                The $64 question is, after you fix it, what else will go wrong?
                Loring in Katy, TX USA
                If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                Comment

                • dbhost
                  Slow and steady
                  • Apr 2008
                  • 9209
                  • League City, Texas
                  • Ryobi BT3100

                  #9
                  Simply put, you have coolant where oil belongs. That is bad. Is the truck dead? Depends on how much you want to invest in fixing it. Is repairing it worth it to you, or would you rather have car payments?

                  From your description, the most obvious points of failure that would cause this are head gaskets, or intake manifold gasket.

                  However many miles are on the truck / engine, and depending on the overall condition of the truck, it might be worth reparing, rebuilding the existing engine, or throwing a remanufactured engine into that thing. Especially if it is a V-8 Dakota.... Those things are a LOT of fun...

                  If you can be without the truck for a while, and budget is tight, maybe a local community college can use it as a trainer for the auto mechanics students? I know when I was in school the auto technology department frequently got cars from the public to work on. Actually as I type this I wonder why I haven't had my truck over there for the transmission...
                  Last edited by dbhost; 03-08-2014, 10:52 PM.
                  Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

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                  • mpc
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2005
                    • 979
                    • Cypress, CA, USA.
                    • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                    #10
                    If you think you might keep the truck, drain the contaminated oil ASAP and fill it with fresh oil, even cheap stuff for now. Don't forget to drain the oil filter and any oil coolers. The sooner any water (or gasoline) is removed from the oil the better when it comes to saving the engine bearings. It only takes a few miles of water or gasoline contamination to trash engine bearings which will really skyrocket the repair bill.

                    There is a fairly inexpensive test that any home handyman can do to help isolate the issue. Begin by rotating each cylinder to Top Dead Center by hand using the crankshaft pulley bolt, rotating the pulley in the direction the engine normally spins - generally clockwise as you face the front of the engine, some Hondas were reversed though - until the piston is at Top Dead Center (TDC). How to know when it's at TDC? Most direct method is to have the valve covers off so you can see the rocker arms or camshafts; when both valves are closed the piston is close enough to TDC for the tests. If getting the valve covers off is a lot of work (emissions hoses and other junk in the way?) a trick is to stick a cork in the spark plug hole. Rotate the crankshaft pulley with a wrench until the cork pops out; that's the cylinder's compression stroke. Slowly turn the crank pulley until the timing mark is at the "0" or "TDC" mark, or at 90, 180, or 270 degrees (you'll have to eyeball estimate these), - whichever is next right after the cork flies out. This works for 4 and 8 cylinder engines; for V6s the timing marks depend on the layout of the V6: is it a 60 degree V6 (the angle of the engine's "V" is 60 degrees) which is "natural" for a V6; it might be 90 degrees though if this engine is based on a V8 design missing 2 cylinders like the V6 used in many Chevy trucks from the 80s/90s. I don't know the Dakota 3.9 V6 engine pedigree. A 90 degree V6 will work with the 0/90/180/270 timing trick (only 3 of those 4 angles will be used since it has only 6 of 8 cylinders); a 60 degree V6 will be 0, 120, 240. Tip: if the V6 has a "balance shaft" it's likely a 90 degree V6 since a 90 degree V6 generally has an uneven (inconsistent) firing order needing a balance shaft to mask the vibrations.

                    The whole idea is to get one cylinder near Top Dead Center. Next, use an air compressor to shove air into the spark plug hole and see where it comes out. Many DIY engine compression testing gauges have a part that screws into spark plug holes and will accept normal air compressor quick-connect fittings - an easy way to hook up a compressor.

                    If the vehicle has a stick shift: put it in 4th or 5th gear, parking brake set firmly. This will keep the engine from turning under air compressor forces. If it's an auto transmission, you may need a helper to hold the crank pulley bolt (or any other pulley actually) with a big wrench.

                    Slowly dial up the air compressor pressure, start at 10 psi or so. If it seems like the air is leaking out, find out where it's going:
                    1: out another spark plug hole - next to the cylinder you're testing? Probably a head gasket issue.

                    2: out the radiator? (take the radiator cap off, listen for air leaks or watch for bubbles) Cooling system leak from a head gasket, bad intake manifold gasket, cracked/busted intake manifold (plastic ones are notorious for this), busted gasket at the base of the throttle body. Coolant in the oil typically means a head gasket though; the other gasket failures lead to white smokey exhaust (burning coolant) and may or may not dump water into the oil.

                    3: coming through the throttle body assembly (can you feel/hear air inside the air filter box?) Head gasket, burned/bad valve, or the cylinder is not at TDC.

                    4: coming out the tail pipe? Exhaust valve isn't sealing or cylinder is not at TDC.

                    5: coming out the oil fill port? (cap off) Air is leaking past the piston rings. A tiny leakage is normal - even new engines have some leakage past the rings - while a larger leak means worn rings, scratched/scored cylinder walls, busted rings, etc... engine rebuild time.

                    Another way to do a similar test is to pressurize the cooling system. Many auto parts stores rent a "cooling system pressure test" kit; this thing attaches in place of the radiator cap. You drain the cooling system, then pump the test unit by hand creating around 10 to 15 psi air pressure in the cooling system and then watch the dial to see if the pressure holds or not. It should hold... but if it leaks down, there is a cooling system leak. If you can feel/hear air oozing out a spark plug hole, that says the head gasket or head has issues in that area. If you hear/feel air from the oil filler port then it's likely a failed head gasket as well... or possibly a cracked block. (very bad news)

                    One common thing folks DON'T know about engine overheating: the dash temp display lies to you. It tells you the circulating coolant temperature... not the engine's temperature. If the thermostat sticks shut, or doesn't open all the way, the temperature of the coolant after the thermostat (where the dash temp sensor typically is installed) is much cooler than the coolant inside the engine. So the engine could be totally overheating yet the dash display might read dead cold - this is what happens with a stuck shut thermostat, if there is little to no coolant in the system, or if the water pump isn't pumping. An engine that overheats, especially one with aluminum cylinder heads, typically suffers twisting damage: high temps make metal parts want to thermally expand; too much temp combined with bolts holding stuff together limits how much movement some parts can have. If they get too hot, and can't expand because other parts are holding them, they'll twist or warp. This is the car/engine/metal version of cross-grain wood expansion & cracking/checking from changes in humidity.

                    Pulling cyl heads is not conceptually difficult though you have to pay attention to a lot of little things: track where every piece goes for later reassembly (like weeks later! don't depend on your memory - use tape to make labels), most parts have to be re-installed in their exact same position (i.e. don't move parts from one cylinder to another), many parts have an "up" (for aligning tiny oil passages) or for internal engine timing, etc. If you note where every part came from, how it was oriented, you'll be okay... better to be over-cautions here than miss something. The factory service manual, Chiltons, Haynes, Clymer manuals, etc. will warn you of those special issues. If you generally don't do engine work I'd suggest a cyl head job is probably not the place to start learning. Haynes and Clymer manuals often have good info and "warnings" for inexperienced mechanics though lately they've been saying "don't try this, leave this job to a pro" for stuff that I think isn't that difficult. My experience with Chiltons leaves me to dislike them; the Chiltons for my Toyota was woefully incorrect in many places compared to the factory manual that I also have. The Haynes and Clymer manuals were much better. Chiltons, at least back in the 80s when I looked at it for my Toyota, were much better with domestic cars than imports. Not sure now; I've never given Chiltons a second chance. Find one of those manuals for your vehicle and flip through the cyl head removal and re-installation instructions to get an idea for what is required, and what special tools might be required.

                    Also, engine cleanliness and flatness are critical, especially around head gaskets. Machine shops have the tools needed to flatten cyl head faces, engine block faces, etc. And to properly wash everything to make sure no grit exists during re-assembly. Dealer hourly repair rates can be twice as high as smaller independent shops. Older guys at your local auto parts stores (not the teenagers) often know where the good shops are. NAPA stores especially; often a big chunk of their clientele are independent repair shops. Ask around, get ballpark estimates... then decide what the truck is worth to you.

                    mpc
                    Last edited by mpc; 03-08-2014, 11:06 PM.

                    Comment

                    • woodturner
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 2047
                      • Western Pennsylvania
                      • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                      #11
                      Originally posted by GPA61
                      Blown head gasket?
                      That would be my suspicious, based on experience.

                      Fortunately, there is an easy fix - K&W block sealer. The "alternative method" of using it works well, but the method recommended by the manufacturer works, too, if the weather is too cold to drive without freeze protection.

                      FWIW, put over 100K on the Cirrus after the repair, still works fine. Keep thinking something else will break, but after 234K miles, I'm having my doubts ;-) In this case, the engine compartment is so tight that it's extremely difficult to work on, so gasket replacement was not a viable option, cheaper to replace the engine.
                      --------------------------------------------------
                      Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                      Comment

                      • Pappy
                        The Full Monte
                        • Dec 2002
                        • 10453
                        • San Marcos, TX, USA.
                        • BT3000 (x2)

                        #12
                        Originally posted by woodturner
                        That would be my suspicious, based on experience.

                        Fortunately, there is an easy fix - K&W block sealer. The "alternative method" of using it works well, but the method recommended by the manufacturer works, too, if the weather is too cold to drive without freeze protection.

                        FWIW, put over 100K on the Cirrus after the repair, still works fine. Keep thinking something else will break, but after 234K miles, I'm having my doubts ;-) In this case, the engine compartment is so tight that it's extremely difficult to work on, so gasket replacement was not a viable option, cheaper to replace the engine.
                        I'm not normally a fan of "snake oil" fixes but I will have to go with this one. I had a major water leak in my Ram 5.9 engine. Water was dumping out between the timing chain cover and block to the point of having to add water every 50 - 75 miles. I used a similar product called "Blue Devil", hoping to get through the winter and do proper repairs when warm weather came around. That was in Nov/Dec 2012. Still have some minor water loss (common in the bigger Dodge engines), but haven't had to tear down the front of the engine to replace the gaskets.

                        For under $40.00, it's worth a shot.... (BTW, CRC bought out K & W so the 2 products shown are probably different size bottles of the same product)

                        Last edited by Pappy; 03-09-2014, 09:32 AM.
                        Don, aka Pappy,

                        Wise men talk because they have something to say,
                        Fools because they have to say something.
                        Plato

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                        • durango dude
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 934
                          • a thousand or so feet above insanity
                          • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

                          #13
                          forgot about the magic potion approach ---- even the guys on CAR TALK say this works. (last resort, though).

                          You could go that route ----- not much to lose.

                          I'm told a can of "Blue Devil" will add 3 months or so to the life of your engine.
                          (save you around $2500) .

                          Comment

                          • woodturner
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jun 2008
                            • 2047
                            • Western Pennsylvania
                            • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                            #14
                            Originally posted by mpc
                            One common thing folks DON'T know about engine overheating: the dash temp display lies to you. It tells you the circulating coolant temperature... not the engine's temperature. If the thermostat sticks shut, or doesn't open all the way, the temperature of the coolant after the thermostat (where the dash temp sensor typically is installed) is much cooler than the coolant inside the engine.
                            I've never seen a car that had the coolant sensor installed "after the thermostat". On many or most contemporary cars (including all the ones I have owned), the temperature sensor is installed in the engine block and monitors engine temperature rather than coolant temperature. I do recall some cars that had the sensor in the coolant stream, but always on the engine side of the thermostat, so a stuck thermostat doesn't affect the reading. That's kind of the point - we care about the engine temperature, not the radiator temperature, and a gauge reading too high is one indication of a stuck thermostat.

                            Curious side note, in the mid-1980's or so as engine efficiencies improved and operating temperatures changed, the manufacturers starting having issues with the temperature change when the thermostat opened. Watching the dashboard gauge, it would reach normal operating temperature but then drop significantly when the thermostat opened. The solution to this issue was partly to monitor engine rather than coolant temperature and partly to increase hysteresis on the dashboard gauge, but the other change was to add the "bypass valve" to thermostats. If you look at a contemporary thermostat, there is a little bobble thing (technical term as found in the literature ) in a hole on the rim. This is the bypass valve that allows a little of the coolant from the radiator side to mix with the coolant on the engine side when the thermostat is closed. This warms the radiator side coolant a little to decrease the temperature change when the thermostat opens.

                            Edit: After a PM exchange, I have learned that the "bypass valve" is commonly called a "jiggle valve", and that some brands do put the sensor before the thermostat, just different brands from what I have owned. Thanks mpc for the clarification.
                            Last edited by woodturner; 03-09-2014, 02:58 PM. Reason: additional information
                            --------------------------------------------------
                            Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

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                            • woodturner
                              Veteran Member
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 2047
                              • Western Pennsylvania
                              • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Pappy
                              I'm not normally a fan of "snake oil" fixes but I will have to go with this one.
                              I was skeptical, too, but a mechanic I trust recommended it. I knew I would have to do the head gasket change myself (cost reasons and this car is so hard to work on that many mechanics will refuse) and didn't want to do that in the dead of winter. When it worked so well, I decided to see how long it would go - and it's still working fine.

                              For under $40.00, it's worth a shot.... (BTW, CRC bought out K & W so the 2 products shown are probably different size bottles of the same product)
                              The one linked is the fancy newer - and expensive - stuff. It's supposed to work better, but I used the $8/bottle regular stuff. There are several brands that make similar claims and use different materials - copper or aluminum particles, etc. - but the regular K&W block sealant is the one I used and that most mechanics seem to recommend. I have heard about issues that others have had with the other brands - clogging radiators, etc. - but not with the K&W and I have not had this experience. Still, YMMV (your mileage may vary) etc.
                              Last edited by woodturner; 03-09-2014, 11:01 AM.
                              --------------------------------------------------
                              Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

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