All George Zimmerman Threads

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  • Pappy
    The Full Monte
    • Dec 2002
    • 10453
    • San Marcos, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 (x2)

    #76
    I can somewhat understand GZ's position.

    A few years ago I was in a position of having a 'contract' on me and my family over something my son did. (He was moved to a protected situation by federal investigators.) Although the 'contract' was small, there enough druggies and gangers around that it was possible for one of them to try to collect.

    After talking to the sheriff and the feds, I got the word back on the street that if anyone I didn't know was caught on my property, it would be up to the sheriff and the coroner to figure out there intentions.

    GZ has to fear violent reprisal anywhere he goes and should at least have the ability to protect himself.
    Don, aka Pappy,

    Wise men talk because they have something to say,
    Fools because they have to say something.
    Plato

    Comment

    • cabinetman
      Gone but not Forgotten RIP
      • Jun 2006
      • 15218
      • So. Florida
      • Delta

      #77
      Originally posted by Pappy
      I can somewhat understand GZ's position.

      A few years ago I was in a position of having a 'contract' on me and my family over something my son did. (He was moved to a protected situation by federal investigators.) Although the 'contract' was small, there enough druggies and gangers around that it was possible for one of them to try to collect.

      After talking to the sheriff and the feds, I got the word back on the street that if anyone I didn't know was caught on my property, it would be up to the sheriff and the coroner to figure out there intentions.

      GZ has to fear violent reprisal anywhere he goes and should at least have the ability to protect himself.
      +1. Just about anywhere he goes, he would likely be recognized seeing how his picture has been plastered on the news daily. Maybe if he got some cosmetic surgery, and changed his looks.

      Or, maybe he could ask Casey Anthony (she could get cosmetic surgery as well), for a date, they become lovers, and they both go into a witness protection program somewhere in Alaska, and live happily ever after.

      .

      Comment

      • Bruce Cohen
        Veteran Member
        • May 2003
        • 2698
        • Nanuet, NY, USA.
        • BT3100

        #78
        Sorry Guy,
        But I just couldn't stay out of this thread,
        As a a licensed handgun owner for over 35 years, half of which was spent in NYC, I really think some major point are being missed,

        Just What really happened?
        NY State does not have a "stand your ground" provision in its penal law, if it did, I assume that the population here would be severely reduced.
        This is the NYS penal law pertaining to the use of "Deadly Physical Force". Read it twice, as it references subsections out of order.

        S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
        1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
        physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she
        reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself, herself or a
        third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or
        imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
        (a) The latter's conduct was provoked by the actor with intent to
        cause physical injury to another person; or
        (b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case the
        use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if the actor has
        withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such
        withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing
        the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical
        force; or
        (c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by
        agreement not specifically authorized by law.
        2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
        under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
        (a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
        about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
        actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
        complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
        necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
        duty to retreat if he or she is:
        (i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
        (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
        officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
        section 35.30; or
        (b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
        or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
        sexual act
        or robbery; or
        (c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
        or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
        the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
        section 35.20.

        I'll let you draw your own conclusion from the above, except to say that when on the street, one must, at the least show that he or she did try to "break-off the confrontation prior to pulling a trigger.

        This does not hold true when you are in your own home.

        A former LEO, turned writer and instructor, who is considered an expert in the field of self defense, Massad Ayoob, once stated that even when he was on the force, carried a pocket full of change and a few paper bills to throw at a an attempted mugger, feeling that this usually appeases the mugger and avoids a complicated series of events which usually end up with the "so called perp" getting shot.

        Wise sayings from someone who more than likely has had to un-holster his handgun considerably more than any of us.

        All I'm saying is that you think about this. Zimmerman may very well been within his rights, but the whole incident got over politicized and went down hill from there.

        Years ago in NYC, Bernie Goetz was the recipient of a botched robbery on the subway , with the end result of three less than "nice guys" getting shot. A perfectly understandable use of deadly physical force.

        Except his handgun wasn't registered and even though he was going avoid any prosecution, he had to open his mouth and publicize the event. It also didn't help that the three guys he shot were black and Bernie was white. End result, he was convicted of something and spent time locked up.

        I make no judgment of both these incidents either way and just chalk most of this up to being a big mouthed dope.

        Bruce
        Last edited by Bruce Cohen; 07-21-2013, 10:09 AM.
        "Western civilization didn't make all men equal,
        Samuel Colt did"

        Comment

        • annunaki
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2008
          • 610
          • White Springs, Florida
          • 21829, BT3100, 2-BT3000(15amp)

          #79
          I remember the Bernie Getz Case well - I was a NY City Detective at the time.
          I thought he was foolish for ever opening his big mouth, that he might have prevailed in court if he had denied any involvement, gotten rid of any weapon, and not told his neighbor Myra Friedman what had happened.
          In the end, Goetz was tried before a mainly white Manhattan jury, six of whom had been victims of street crime. He was acquitted of the attempted murder and first-degree assault charges and convicted of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree – carrying a loaded, unlicensed weapon in a public place. He was sentenced to six months in jail, one year's psychiatric treatment, five years' probation, 200 hours community service, and a fine of $5,000. He appealed, and the appellate court affirmed the conviction and ordered a re-sentencing for a period of one year in jail without probation. The order of the appellate court was affirmed because the trial court had not erred in instructing the jury that, if it found the People had proved each of the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, it "must" find the defendant guilty. This was not a directed verdict. Goetz served eight months.

          But Worse than that was the Civil Law Suit
          The jury found that Goetz had acted recklessly and had deliberately inflicted emotional distress on Cabey. The Daily News stated that Goetz's decision to fire a second shot at Cabey was a key factor in the jurors' decision. The jury awarded Cabey $43 million – $18 million for pain and suffering and $25 million in punitive damages.

          Goetz subsequently filed for bankruptcy, saying that legal expenses had left him almost penniless. A judge of the United States Bankruptcy Court ruled that the $43 million jury award could not be dismissed by the bankruptcy. Asked in 2004 whether he was making payments on the judgment, Goetz responded "I don't think I've paid a penny on that", and referred any questions on the subject to his attorney.

          Yeah Bernies worst enemy was his Big Mouth
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileodecahedron.gif

          Comment

          • annunaki
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2008
            • 610
            • White Springs, Florida
            • 21829, BT3100, 2-BT3000(15amp)

            #80
            " The order of the appellate court was affirmed because the trial court had not erred in instructing the jury that, if it found the People had proved each of the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, it "must" find the defendant guilty. "

            This however is a LIE that the Court told the Jury.

            Juries Have the Right of Nullification that the Courts will never Fully Inform Them Of- The Court's legal cop-out to this is underlined below.

            Read:" What lawyers & judges won't tell you about juries"
            Since 1964, the news while there's still time to do something about it

            Especially:In our Constitutional Republic (note I didn't say democracy) the people have granted certain limited powers to government, preserving and retaining their God-given inalienable rights. So, if it is indeed the juror's right to decide the law, then the citizens should know what their rights are. They need not be told by the courts. After all, the Constitution makes us the masters of the public servants. Should a servant have to tell a master what his rights are? Of course not, it's our responsibility to know what our rights are!


            Jurors have more power than the Judge, a Senator a Congressman, and the President- none of whom can do what a single Juror can do- Nullify a Law

            Go here for more information

            Jurors' Handbook: Citizens Guide to Jury Duty and information on Jury Nullification



            Fully Informed Jury Association

            FIJA is the premier educational organization dedicated to fully informing everyone of jurors' right of jury nullification.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileodecahedron.gif

            Comment

            • annunaki
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2008
              • 610
              • White Springs, Florida
              • 21829, BT3100, 2-BT3000(15amp)

              #81
              How I Learned about Nullification and used the knowledge

              While I agree with the concept of every citizens obligation to serve on jury duty, I also realize that as a "concept" it may have flaws not often considered.

              My personal feeling is that as a potential juror that might be sequestered, I should be treated at least as well as someone incarcerated. Sadly, this is not the case.
              A prisoner, has the right to special dietary treatment for religious or medical conditions.
              The reality in my rural location, is that that's just not going to happen.
              Religious and medical diet need would probably result in excusals.

              In my situation, my dietary practices are neither religious nor of medical necessity (though they are a health choice). Because of this they would not be respected as a valid excusal, even though I have followed them for over 25 years.

              I own six dogs, two cats, and one African Grey Parrot, which would all have to be boarded if I was sequestered, the cost of which would be my burden and not that of the Court.

              So the last time I was called for Jury Duty, I made it to Voir Dire, where upon one of the attys asked me what I would have been doing if I wasn't in court that day.

              My response was that I would probably be continuing my studies of the night before.
              He then asked me what they were.
              I told him in preparation for Jury Duty I was learning all about the Powers of a Juror and Jury Nullification and how Judges will never Fully Inform the Jury of their Right of Nullification, but will misleadingly tell them they must ONLY consider the facts in the case, reasoning that the Court's (Servant of the People) Place is not to inform the Jury (Masters) of their powers.

              You should have seen the look on the Judge's face "", but there was nothing he could do. I was asked a question under oath and honestly answered it, and all the other potential jurors in that courtroom heard it.

              Strangely, over the years, I've never been called again.

              If they ever change their policies on food and pet boarding, I would gladly serve- But only then IF THE JURY WAS FULLY INFORMED OF THEIR RIGHT OF NULLIFICATION BY THE COURT/JUDGE
              Last edited by annunaki; 07-21-2013, 12:54 PM. Reason: typo
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileodecahedron.gif

              Comment

              • cabinetman
                Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                • Jun 2006
                • 15218
                • So. Florida
                • Delta

                #82
                Originally posted by annunaki
                Yeah Bernies worst enemy was his Big Mouth
                That's for sure. He had the right to remain silent.

                Thank you for all your input to this thread.

                .

                Comment

                • annunaki
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 610
                  • White Springs, Florida
                  • 21829, BT3100, 2-BT3000(15amp)

                  #83
                  George Zimmerman rescues victims trapped in overturned truck...

                  http://www.drudgereport.com/George Zimmerman rescues victims trapped in overturned truck...

                  Four people, including two children, pulled unscathed from burning vehicle...

                  'What if George hadn't gotten out of his truck?'

                  Supporters raise money to buy him new gun...

                  New Black Panther Party Marches...

                  Houston counter-protest defends...

                  ACLU withdraws demand that Feds take action...
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileodecahedron.gif

                  Comment

                  • JR
                    The Full Monte
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 5633
                    • Eugene, OR
                    • BT3000

                    #84
                    I think we can safely give this thread a rest...
                    JR

                    Comment

                    • annunaki
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 610
                      • White Springs, Florida
                      • 21829, BT3100, 2-BT3000(15amp)

                      #85
                      Well with this new turn of events of George Zimmerman rescueing victims trapped in overturned truck, there will probably be a new media frenzy to find out the ethnicity of those rescued.
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileodecahedron.gif

                      Comment

                      • TB Roye
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 2969
                        • Sacramento, CA, USA.
                        • BT3100

                        #86
                        They will try and blame him for the accident. I wish the real story of these two would come but they are being suppressed.


                        Tom

                        Comment

                        • JSUPreston
                          Veteran Member
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 1189
                          • Montgomery, AL.
                          • Delta 36-979 w/Biesemyere fence kit making it a 36-982. Previous saw was BT3100-1.

                          #87
                          Originally posted by TB Roye
                          They will try and blame him for the accident. I wish the real story of these two would come but they are being suppressed.
                          Sadly, you're pretty close. I've seen folks already saying that it was set up to make him look like a hero.
                          "It's a dog eat dog world out there, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear."- Norm (from Cheers)

                          Eat beef-because the west wasn't won on salad.

                          Comment

                          • annunaki
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 610
                            • White Springs, Florida
                            • 21829, BT3100, 2-BT3000(15amp)

                            #88
                            How a Miami School Crime Cover-Up Policy Led to Trayvon Martin’s Death

                            How a Miami School Crime Cover-Up Policy Led to Trayvon Martin’s Death

                            By Robert Stacy McCain on 7.15.13 @ 1:05AM

                            The February 2012 shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martion might never have happened if school officials in Miami-Dade County had not instituted an unofficial policy of treating crimes as school disciplinary infractions. Revelations that emerged from an internal affairs investigation explain why Martin was not arrested when caught at school with stolen jewelry in October 2011 or with marijuana in February 2012. Instead, the teenager was suspended from school, the last time just days before he was shot dead by George Zimmerman.

                            Trayvon Martin was not from Sanford, the town north of Orlando where he was shot in 2012 and where a jury acquitted Zimmerman of murder charges Saturday. Martin was from Miami Gardens, more than 200 miles away, and had come to Sanford to stay with his father’s girlfriend Brandy Green at her home in the townhouse community where Zimmerman was in charge of the neighborhood watch. Trayvon was staying with Green after he had been suspended for the second time in six months from Krop High School in Miami-Dade County, where both his father, Tracy Martin, and mother, Sybrina Fulton, lived.

                            Both of Trayvon’s suspensions during his junior year at Krop High involved crimes that could have led to his prosecution as a juvenile offender. However, Chief Charles Hurley of the Miami-Dade School Police Department (MDSPD) in 2010 had implemented a policy that reduced the number of criiminal reports, manipulating statistics to create the appearance of a reduction in crime within the school system. Less than two weeks before Martin’s death, the school system commended Chief Hurley for “decreasing school-related juvenile delinquency by an impressive 60 percent for the last six months of 2011.” What was actually happening was that crimes were not being reported as crimes, but instead treated as disciplinary infractions.

                            In October 2011, after a video surveillance camera caught Martin writing graffiti on a door, MDSPD Office Darryl Dunn searched Martin’s backpack, looking for the marker he had used. Officer Dunn found 12 pieces of women’s jewelry and a man’s watch, along with a flathead screwdriver the officer described as a “burglary tool.” The jewelry and watch, which Martin claimed he had gotten from a friend he refused to name, matched a description of items stolen during the October 2011 burglary of a house on 204th Terrace, about a half-mile from the school. However, because of Chief Hurley’s policy “to lower the arrest rates,” as one MDSPD sergeant said in an internal investigation, the stolen jewerly was instead listed as “found property” and was never reported to Miami-Dade Police who were investigating the burglary. Similarly, in February 2012 when an MDSPD officer caught Martin with a small plastic bag containing marijuana residue, as well as a marijuana pipe, this was not treated as a crime, and instead Martin was suspended from school.

                            Either of those incidents could have put Trayvon Martin into the custody of the juvenile justice system. However, because of Chief Hurley’s attempt to reduce the school crime statistics — according to sworn testimony, officers were “basically told to lie and falsify” reports — Martin was never arrested. And if he had been arrested, he might never have been in Sanford the night of his fatal encounter with Zimmerman.

                            In fact, the reason Zimmerman was patrolling the townhouse community the night of the February 2012 shooting was that there had been a rash of burglaries in the neighborhood, although there was no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any of those crimes.

                            As for Chief Hurley’s policy, it was the controversy over Martin’s death that accidentally exposed it. In March 2012, the Miami Herald reported on Martin’s troubled history of disciplinary incidents at Krop High. Chief Hurley then launched the internal affairs investigation in an attempt to find out who had provided information to the reporter. During the course of that investigation, MDSPD officers and supervisors described Chief Hurley’s policy of not reporting crimes by students. Chief Hurley was subsequently accused of sexually harassing two female subordinates. He resigned in February, about a year after Trayvon Martin’s death.
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileodecahedron.gif

                            Comment

                            • cabinetman
                              Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 15218
                              • So. Florida
                              • Delta

                              #89
                              I'm thinking "destiny"...or maybe karma.

                              .

                              Comment

                              • annunaki
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2008
                                • 610
                                • White Springs, Florida
                                • 21829, BT3100, 2-BT3000(15amp)

                                #90
                                Jailed author of Flight 800 book vindicated

                                Jailed author of Flight 800 book vindicated
                                Justice Department concedes wrongdoing in case against Sanders

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileodecahedron.gif

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