what's the best option (not woodworking topic)

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  • durango dude
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 934
    • a thousand or so feet above insanity
    • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

    what's the best option (not woodworking topic)

    Okay - so my son's jeep needs new shocks, new brake rotors, and new pads.

    I figured I might as well show him how to work on the car - already bought the parts ---- but have three options:

    a) Local shade tree mechanic charges $50/hr ---- but figures on 3-4 hrs according to "the book." (I disagree --- but hey - I don't have a book)

    b) Rent impact wrench from local tool rental --- about $50

    c) Purchase electric impact wrench (excuse for pilgramage to the big orange altar).

    d) Purchase air compressor and impact wrench (I could find a use for the compressor ---- it comes with a brad nail gun)

    Obviously, option b is best price.
  • Cochese
    Veteran Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 1988

    #2
    Did you check with the local auto parts stores? Usually they let you rent tools for free with just a refundable deposit.

    I'd buy a compressor, because we all need compressors at some point, and see about freely renting the impact gun.

    If you're going to rent the impact wrench for $50, you might as well buy it for $40 at HF. It'll at least last you through this job, and they have high reviews.
    I have a little blog about my shop

    Comment

    • gerti
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2003
      • 2233
      • Minnetonka, MN, USA.
      • BT3100 "Frankensaw"

      #3
      Forgive my ignorance, but why do any of these repairs require an impact wrench?

      Comment

      • durango dude
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2011
        • 934
        • a thousand or so feet above insanity
        • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

        #4
        shocks are nasty - and often impossible to take off without one.

        I've turned the stud out before with a torque wrench (rust)

        The other concern is simply time ------ taking 4 tires off!

        Sure - I can do this all by hand - but let me tell you - an impact wrench makes the day much more pleasant.

        Comment

        • Bill in Buena Park
          Veteran Member
          • Nov 2007
          • 1865
          • Buena Park, CA
          • CM 21829

          #5
          I'd also vote to buy the compressor and impact wrench. They will see use in the future, and renting every time gets expensive. And the compressor opens you up to air nailers.

          I have one like this: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-26-ga...3&blockType=G3

          Tells me the set is on sale for $270. Came with the two tools, just like it. May be spendy, but its got good capacity for a variety of air tools, have had it for a few years now, and no complaints.

          However - I have the HF airtools also, and really like them. And you could likely get this HF compressor: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-horse...sor-67696.html

          I've used this model also (a family member has it), and it gets the job done. Not a bad price when on sale for $99. And this HF impact wrench for $22 would likely get the job done as well - had one several years ago, before the Craftsman setup, and it worked fine. http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-a...nch-61718.html
          Bill in Buena Park

          Comment

          • jdon
            Established Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 401
            • Snoqualmie, Wash.
            • BT3100

            #6
            I tried that $22 HF air impact wrench as a replacement for my beloved "X" lug wrench. My experience was that it was incredibly wimpy, even at full pressure- I don't know how it produces the claimed 250 ft-lbs of torque; it couldn't loosen lug nuts. It is also a real air hog. If you're thinking of a compressor-brad nailer combo, the ones I've seen are lower capacity (pancake) compressors- okay for a low demand brad nailer, but woefully inadequate for an air wrench.

            My HF gathers dust, and I still use my x wrench to remove tires.

            Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced powerful impact wrench that really works?

            Comment

            • Bill in Buena Park
              Veteran Member
              • Nov 2007
              • 1865
              • Buena Park, CA
              • CM 21829

              #7
              Originally posted by jdon
              Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced powerful impact wrench that really works?
              As usual, variable HF quality may be an issue - my $22 HF wrench was a beast, and the Craftsman as well, using for lugs and everything else on my three trucks. In either case, if you get a bad one, they will let you exchange or return.

              That said, I'd be more concerned about your lug nuts being overtight if you can't get them off with an impact wrench. Overtightening, especially with an impact wrench, leads to pulled threads, and then you have to replace the studs. As a matter of practice, I use the impact wrench to remove lug nuts, and then use to BARELY snug them on - and use the X-wrench to finish the tightening - but not overtighten.
              Bill in Buena Park

              Comment

              • jdon
                Established Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 401
                • Snoqualmie, Wash.
                • BT3100

                #8
                I'd be more concerned about your lug nuts being overtight if you can't get them off with an impact wrench.
                I agree completely with the risk of over tightening. Actually, I had previously put the lug nuts on with my X wrench. I'm not terribly strong, but with an X wrench I'm able without stress to remove nuts that the HF impact wrench wouldn't budge.

                The HF wrench was an on sale impulse buy, and by the time I needed to rotate tires, the return limit had expired. Oh well, I've gotten plenty of decent stuff at HF, so just part of the HF karma.

                Apologies to the OP- didn't mean to hijack the thread!

                Comment

                • Hellrazor
                  Veteran Member
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 2091
                  • Abyss, PA
                  • Ridgid R4512

                  #9
                  Originally posted by gerti
                  Forgive my ignorance, but why do any of these repairs require an impact wrench?
                  Its an excuse to buy tools.... what kind of wood worker are you?

                  Comment

                  • Black wallnut
                    cycling to health
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 4715
                    • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
                    • BT3k 1999

                    #10
                    I'd advise B or E, which is use hand tools. I understand your reasons to not use hand tools, I can respect that. Unless you have the cash flow to afford a larger compressor resist the urge to buy one that will drive brads and think it will run an impact wrench. Many 1/2" wrenches require 5 cfm to work properly. My CP is that way, plenty of power at high volume, near worthless at low volume. I am sold on snugging lugnuts with the gun and final tightening with a torque wrench with anti-seize on the threads.

                    If you choose hand tool route use 6 point sockets.
                    Donate to my Tour de Cure


                    marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

                    Head servant of the forum

                    ©

                    Comment

                    • cwsmith
                      Veteran Member
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 2737
                      • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                      • BT3100-1

                      #11
                      I've never done a shock replacement myself, so I can't address that. But I've never seen any lug nut that I couldn't get off manually. The other stuff (not the shocks) could probably be done best 'manually' also.

                      However, since you are making this a 'learning' project with your son, I'd personally opt for getting the compressor... especially if you have other uses for it!

                      (Personally, I don't know what I'd do without my compressor. I use it quite a bit.)

                      Going back to the tire lug issue.... and 'lessons learned': I don't like to be overly dependant on power tools; although they are a great time saver and just makes things easier all the way around. But for something like the car, my opinion would be to learn to do as much manually as possible. Having to change a tire out on the road (or in the field) is a necessary challenge on rare occasion. No sense in making it more challenging if you only learned to do it with a compressor and an impact wrench.

                      CWS
                      Think it Through Before You Do!

                      Comment

                      • woodturner
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 2047
                        • Western Pennsylvania
                        • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Black wallnut
                        I'd advise B or E, which is use hand tools.
                        I'll second (third? fifth?) that. No need for impact for the jobs cited.

                        Impacts are good for loosening bolts where you can't keep the nut from turning. None of the electric impacts are powerful enough to do much, and no impact has the torque of a breaker bar and a 10' pipe (if you can apply 50 ft-lbs of torque on a 10' breaker bar, you can apply 500 ft-lbs with a 10' pipe, enough to break the fastener if it won't loosen).

                        An alternative to an air impact is a hand impact such as http://www.sears.com/craftsman-impac...1&blockType=G1

                        Hit it with a 5 lb sledge and it will work almost as well as an air wrench.

                        For compressors, I use this one as my portable and it works well


                        I like the HF earthquake impact wrench, very powerful. Got mine for around $20 on sale http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-p...nch-68424.html

                        The real, key, though is BreakFree CLP http://www.break-free.com/?location=/products/index.asp

                        Soak the fastener overnight (temperature has to be in the 70F or greater range for best effect) and the corrosion and rust will dissolve.

                        The other thing you will likely want is an angle grinder and a metal blade - the $10 HF version is fine. Just cut off the fasteners you will replace anyway, typically shocks come with complete replacement fasteners.

                        If you choose hand tool route use 6 point sockets.
                        Not to start a debate, but some claim 6 point sockets are less likely to round a fastener head, but that is not the case. Both 6 pt and 12 pt sockets make contact only near the corners of the fastener head - they have to be a little larger to fit over the head, then when torque is applied they cam slightly and make contact near the points. The only sockets that improve this are the "universal" type sockets that have a ridge that contacts the fastener head midway between the points. They work really well and can apply a lot more torque without damaging the fastener.

                        Personally, I use impact sockets with hand wrenches. The impact sockets are harder steel and are also made to a little tighter tolerance, so they fit a little more snugly on the fastener head. While 12 pt are available, the common ones are 6 pt and that is OK. The HF impact sockets work pretty well. The sidewalls of the impact sockets are also thicker and less likely to deform or crack.

                        I did the shocks on my 2000 Ranger a few weeks ago, used BreakFree the night before, no problems at all using hand tools. It's likely the job will go better than you expect, but sometimes it doesn't - and that's what you need to expect and plan for.

                        Just my thoughts and experience.....
                        --------------------------------------------------
                        Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                        Comment

                        • Charlie R
                          Forum Newbie
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 90

                          #13
                          I found the cure for wheels that are stuck on after the lug nuts are off. First loosen all lug nuts a couple of turns on all wheels to be removed. Next drive on a hard surface slowly, and use the brakes a few times while going forward and in reverse. Saves a lot of effort for the backyard mechanic.

                          Comment

                          • mpc
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 979
                            • Cypress, CA, USA.
                            • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                            #14
                            I second the notion of hitting the shock attachments with a rust penetrant of some sort a day ahead of the work. Put a small catch pan underneath though (aluminum trays from cinnamon rolls, store-bought brownies, etc) since sometimes they can stain driveways. Also have a can or two of spray brake cleaner to clean up the brake rotor & pads after installation; it's almost impossible to not get a dirty/greasy fingerprint on them during installation. The catch pan will be needed for that too.

                            If you already have some Ryobi 18volt stuff, the $99 Ryobi impact driver (200 foot-lbs) is pretty handy. It comes with a 1/2 inch square drive like a beefy socket wrench, not the scrawny 1/4inch hex shank quick-connect collets found on power screwdrivers and other less beefy tools. I use mine for all but the worst fasteners when working on my cars.

                            HF used to sell a US General impact gun rated somewhere around 750 ft-lbs. I have one of those as well and it works quite well. It includes some adjustments for tightening torques but I never use it to actually tighten anything - that's what torque wrenches are for. When getting to such powerful impact guns, use of "regular" sockets is ill-advised. They're not designed for shock loads and can split/shatter. When I'm using my impact sockets on a particularly stubborn fastener, I wrap the socket with a couple layers of filament tape... so if it busts apart pieces won't go flying (into my face). Just in case...

                            As others have noted, the typical pancake compressors can make good air pressure but little airflow volume which suits nail guns just fine... but many air tools require significant volume including impact drivers. Around 6 CFM is a reasonable target value when shopping compressors if air tools (beyond nailers) are in your plans. Sanders and paint sprayers often require even more (and larger hoses - small hose diameters restrict airflow). Many, if not most, air tools are rated for 90psi maximum... so a 120 psi compressor is sufficient. Lately the trend is to higher PSI - like 150 or 175 psi... but not so many CFMs which I find rather pointless. CFMs are where it's at. Going above 6 CFM tends to mean much bigger bucks, often 240 volt or gas powered compressors. Often the regulator on compressors limits the max flow rate too - I had to change the one on my Craftsman 6CFM compressor to a 1/2 inch style to get proper airflow for my air tools.

                            Oh, the "oil free" compressors often make a LOT more noise... not always, but generally so especially with the lower priced models. Oil-free is nice for paint spraying but is not essential - less chance of fine oil mist ending up in the air and thus into your paint. A filter/separator unit at the compressor outlet will take care of any compressor oil in the airflow. Most air tools require a drop or two of oil where you connect the air hose... sometimes that oil can dribble back into the air hose. I have one air hose dedicated to paint spraying - it's never seen an air tool. That way I know the hose isn't contaminated with air tool oil.

                            Before really getting serious about using impact stuff on the Jeep project, take a look at how much room you have to get a tool in there. Brake stuff tends to be pretty tight around suspension parts. You may find a breaker bar is your only real option. Cutting the shock bolts as woodturner suggested is a very good option. Many suspension shops, especially those in snow country, expect shock and suspension bolts to be beyond saving and just plan to remove them with cutting torches or big impact guns hoping to bust the bolts into two parts... nut still attached.

                            mpc

                            Comment

                            • Black wallnut
                              cycling to health
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 4715
                              • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
                              • BT3k 1999

                              #15
                              Also not to continue an argument but my experience with sockets and rusted fasteners comes from my years working on fertilizer machinery. 6 point worked better and were less likely to round off the corners than 12 point however I should also mention that I was using Snap-on or Mac mostly which both are tight tolerance and touch the fasteners away from the corners.

                              I concur the best option with shocks is to cut or intentionally break the bolts if they do not break free easily. Your shocks should come with new fasteners anyway. Getting brake calipers off there is seldom IME room for an air wrench and sometimes not much room for a large breaker bar.
                              Donate to my Tour de Cure


                              marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

                              Head servant of the forum

                              ©

                              Comment

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