Thein Separator vrs. Cyclone questions

[dbhost]

Thein Separator update.
I have completed the installation of the Wynn Nano filter cartridge on my Delta 50-760. Just for laughs I removed the motor and fan wheel assembly to see how bad the fan was caked up with pine dust, pretty bad, but it cleaned ok. I was shocked to see how rough the edges of the fan wheel and blades were. This is rough as in from the factory, sharp edges that you would have thought would have been removed, not from junk going thru the fan and dinging it up. 30 minutes with a file and air grinder and they are as they should be.
Next I worked on the Thein Separator. My Thein separator ( aprox 24" dia x 12" tall ) has clear acrylic sides so you can see the dust and debris flying around inside. It has been removing close to 100% of the saw chips and shavings but it lets a lot of the wood flour dust go through. The fan suction pick up into the Thein is a 5" pipe picking up near he baffle. I changed the fan suction to a gallon tin can with a door cut in the side with the door cut out material swung to the side wall to create a swirl action in the higher part of the separator. I tested this mod by force feeding it massive gobs of planer chips and floor sweeping. It threw them in the garbage can with no problem but after 10 gallons there was about 1/4 cup of chips in the plastic bag under the canister. I did not see any signs that the Thein was picking up any chips or dust from the garbage can when the dust collector was idiling with no debris being picked up. Not one to leave something that is operating nicely alone I decided to take the Thein back apart and remove the diverted door off the tin can pick up. The thought behind this move was the diverted door could be diverting chips into the suction. After removing the diverted door I tested the unit again. I did not notice chips going to the plastic bag but I did notice swirling chips in the Thein when the dust collector was idiling and no debris being picked up. Not what I wanted, I have caused more Thein "reflux". I believe this is where the wood flour is coming from in the filter, being picked up from the garbage can when the collector is just idling. I'm putting the diverted door back in the Thein tomorrow.
The change to the Nano filter, cleaning up the fan blades and removing the screens in the fan housing seem to increase the amount of suction by 2x.
capncarl

What filter was on your DC before? If it was the Delta 1 Micron bag, I can see where your free range dust was coming from... I have heard less than spectacular things about that particular bag...

[capncarl]

The bag on my delt 50769 "dust spreader" was the 1 micron stock bag. I bet the 2 and 3 micron units are truly dust spreaders!
capncarl

[atgcpaul]

Have you ever done something and wondered why am I doing this? Having one of those today.

I got ahead of myself and mounted the SDD to the board and I should have just let it float while I worked on the bracing for the motor. It's not really in the right spot so that board is scrap. I'm happy with the space between the motor and the board, though. I didn't want the SDD and 3D printed coupler to be pressed down by the motor so mission accomplished there.

My plastic drum has an irregular shape--slightly oval--so that will make getting an airtight fit a little harder. That motor is unwieldy when in the upright position. I've got to think about how to make this all stable on the rolling platform. I don't have the wall space to mount it.

Since we're also talking about the Thein separator, it definitely wins for a more compact setup.

[capncarl]

I'm not fond of top heavy tools. I nearly turned my delta 50 760 over a time or 2 on pieces of scrap on the floor. It has a flimsy frame anyway. It now lives in its own corner. Atgcpaul, is your rig going to be mobile or mounted to a wall?

[atgcpaul]

Atgcpaul, is your rig going to be mobile or mounted to a wall?

I do want to keep it on the current mobile base (the HF casters that come with their DC are surprisingly smooth rolling) but the top heaviness of this is worrisome. It's probably one of the reasons most of these have short dust drums, but why fun is more frequent barrel cleaninbs? I also have to mount the Wynn filter which will be even higher up unless I get a longer DC to dust ring hose. Maybe I could weigh down the cart with cinder blocks or bags of sand.

I don't normally move the DC more than a few feet. It's just convenient to roll it out of the way when needed.

I don't remember when I last cleaned the Wynn filter--maybe last summer. I had an in-ring Thein baffle. When I disassembled the whole thing, I swear I vacuumed out at least 5" of fine dust from the Wynn when I flipped it upside down. If I beat the pleats more keeps coming out. My shop vac is equipped with the smaller dust deputy and I don't think much of the dust got to the canister.

I have a sliver of wall space where it could go, but lumber would need to be relocated. Decisions, decisions...

[atgcpaul]

I had planned to use only scraps but the 1x3s were too scrawny for the legs so today I upsized them to 2x4s and reattached everything.

I haven't decided which direction the inlet will point but that is where it will be situated. I'll have to detach the board one last time to slip the coupler between the blower and the SDD as well as cut the hole for the SDD and route a shallow groove to accept the gasket that will sit on top of the trash can.

I have a steel trash can that will be the dust catcher. I'll have to devise something to raise and lower the can under the platform.

The four corner legs are not tied together yet.

[capncarl]

atgcpaul
My metal garbage can raises and lowers itself. After fiddling for hours looking for a solution to raising the can I found that if the can has just enough clearance to slip it under the device suction picks it up against the seal. It does this with a reassuring clunk. It will not pick it up after it has some weight in it. Now the procedure after I empty the can is to slide it in place and turn the dust collector on, after it has picked it up I slide a couple of wedges under the can. It's good for the duration. When I want to check the can I pull out the wedges with the machine running and let it drop when I turn it off. No sense overbuilding something that works.
capncarl

[atgcpaul]

No sense overbuilding something that works.
capncarl

As you can see, it's way too late for me

I didn't realize there'd be that much suction. Anyway, with the can on the floor, there's about 3-4" of space between the top of the can and the bottom of the board. I think if the can sits on top of the old HF DC rolling base, it will fit, and will make moving the can in and out easier.. I'm still thinking I'll bungee the handles to that board when it's docked, though, just to ensure there are no air leaks.

[atgcpaul]

I guess if you do something long enough, you'll eventually see a little bit of everything. I made a quick router trammel to route a perfect circle to accept the top of my trash can. I guess I dawdled in spots because the round nose bit got the chips hot enough to make glowing embers. I wasn't sure what i was looking at at first until smoke started to rise out of the dust. Just to be safe, I'll move the dust can outside when I finish for the day.

[capncarl]

My dislike for using a router prompted me to make circle jig for my 14" delta band saw. I haven't spent any time googling it but there are probably some good examples of it out there. On the dust collector build I cut the inside and outside pieces for my metal garbage can on it. There is 1 cut through for the blade to get insiders a circle and that glues back together and is invisible. You can make toy car wheels really good and fast, I can make a 3-4" disk in 10 seconds where as a hole saw takes longer and makes a big mess to clean up. The primary purpose of this jig build was to cut the arc in the aprons on my tables.
capncarl

[JimD]

The noise of the router is a significant reason I bought a benchtop mortiser. The router mortises were, if anything, nicer than the ones the mortiser produces. But cutting them involves plunge cutting and lots of noise. Not that pleasant. But routers are necessary tools. I like cope and stick cuts on doors but raising panels on the router is not my favorite either.

[capncarl]

Allow
Me to rephrase my router statement. I use the router what it is best suited for. Routing the edges of boards and cutting dados in wide/large boards that I don't want to wrestle on the tablesaw. My router in the wing of my table saw is used a lot for floating tendons with the slot cutter. I think the router can be used for a lot of things if that is your game, just like someone using a table saw as a lathe.

[capncarl]

Atgcpaul, poolhound, have you used your sdd/ dust collector enough to get a feel of the sdd efficiency? I've used my modified Thein setup enough to create 5 full metal drums of shavings, probably 20 gallons each and have not detected any suction loss yet.
capncarl

[poolhound]

Thats good to hear. Mine is still sitting in the box so no results yet:-)

Getting the new shop organized is taking longer than expected/desired - Of course. I am fitting in some cabinets and building a miter station for the new Bosch Glide/Slide. This means I am in the middle of one of those puzzles where you have to move half the pieces out of the way just to get one number where you want and then you have to move them all back again. I hope to get to DC related 'plumbing' and setup in a couple of weeks.

Atgcpaul, poolhound, have you used your sdd/ dust collector enough to get a feel of the sdd efficiency? I've used my modified Thein setup enough to create 5 full metal drums of shavings, probably 20 gallons each and have not detected any suction loss yet.
capncarl

[atgcpaul]

Atgcpaul, poolhound, have you used your sdd/ dust collector enough to get a feel of the sdd efficiency? I've used my modified Thein setup enough to create 5 full metal drums of shavings, probably 20 gallons each and have not detected any suction loss yet.
capncarl

I have used my SDD just 1 time while I was working out my new setup. Nothing was airtight--not even close--and like an idiot, I fed in a handful of fine dust flour. I collected a bunch in my can, but the back wall of my shop got a nice blast of dust, too. It's one of those times where at first you're initially stunned and then you just bust out laughing.

Anyway, yesterday I filled the circular groove I routed to fit over my trash can with caulk. I'm going to wait a few days to ensure a full cure. There's not much to do after this point but reassemble the whole thing and fire it up. There's about 1/2"of space between the bottom of the new lid and the top of the can riding on the old HF DC mobile base so now I just have to devise a way to snug the can up to the lid. I'll probably just use wedges.

I am probably going to cut a window into the new lid and cover it with some scrap plexi/lexan. Right now, I can't tell if the bin is full unless I move the can out of the way. My old setup had a translucent drum and I could see the sawdust height in silhouette.

Unfortunately I have no way of knowing if I will win, lose, or draw on suction when I'm all done. My old setup with the in-DC-ring Thein baffle didn't lack suction, but I really hated clearing the dust out of the Wynn filter. Keeping that clean was a pain but also the most important thing to maintaining good suction. I'm confident the SDD will require less filter cleanings, and if my shopvac with small dust deputy attached is any indicator, I think I will achieve that.

Paul