changing out own car brakes

[capncarl]

atgcpaul I was referring to the amount corrosion brake problems salt road areas have vrs non salted road areas!

[JimD]

JimD, these guys are talking about a totally different environment for operating a car than S Carolina and south ga. Salted roads changes everything, even a northern vehicle that operates only in their warm weather experiences more corrosion than down here simply from dry salty dirt that is picked up on the road.

That's why I commented on 15 years in Pittsburgh, Western Pennsylvania. My experience was no different there. The sliding pin of the typical brake caliper should be covered by a dust seal. That is not a perfect solution to corrosion but my brakes have never had a significant issue.

If I was replacing pads and saw a leak or badly corroded pin, I would replace the malfunctioning part but I just haven't seen it.

[woodturner]

I lived 15 years, by the way, in Western Pennsylvania. I drove a Festiva for part of that time and put over 80K miles on it without changing the brakes.

I used to drive a Festiva around here

Yeah, good luck getting 40K on the Festiva calipers around here. Between the road salt and EVERYWHERE being uphill, brakes don't last long. Many people get only about 20K on their brakes .

Could be a difference in criteria, too. For example, on the Festiva, the caliper failures were typically that the piston would get "stiff", so the caliper would not move freely. Technically, the caliper was "working", but it was not working correctly. To properly release, the caliper has to move freely - if a clamp is needed to push back the caliper on a Festiva, it's time to replace. (A working Festiva caliper is so small it can easily be pushed back with hand pressure)

[capncarl]

woodturner, you mean that you probably get more miles out of a set of tires than the brake calipers? That's awful! That is definitely a manufacturing design flaw. Something that the mfg would never make public, like Ford when I demanded satisfaction because the dealer could not satisfy me when my 5.6 V8 oil was "disappearing" They finally admitted oil usage of 1 quart per 1000 miles was acceptable to them! Who would buy this product if they new the truth?

[woodturner]

woodturner, you mean that you probably get more miles out of a set of tires than the brake calipers?

Pretty much the norm around here - it's all the hills, nothing is flat.

Tires were another issue with that car, they used a small, rare tire. Got hard to find them near the end, as that tire size was more commonly used on trailers than cars. Best wear rating I could find was 40K miles. Fortunately they were inexpensive.

I'm curious whether you had a later model Festiva and if they might have changed the design - I had an '88. Lots of variables could account for the difference between your experience and mine - different salt formulations and volume, different weather patterns, etc.

Biggest problem was the parking brake adjuster "freezing" - seems to be a problem with most Ford and Chrysler adjusters (I have the same issues with my Ranger - freezing adjusters and sliding pins and calipers that freeze). Every fall I would free them up, clean them, and lube them, but invariably I had to do it again during the winter, with every Ford and Chrysler I have owned.

It's not fair to call it a design defect - this is normal for these types of mechanism, and is called out in the severe service maintenance schedule (which is the one nearly everyone should be using, unless you drive on the highway all the time). Unfortunately, there is no real alternative - metal parts exposed to salt corrode, even with better coatings and treatments available now.

They finally admitted oil usage of 1 quart per 1000 miles was acceptable to them!

That's correct - 1 quart per 800 mile is the industry standard specification for new vehicles and has been for some time. Most vehicles don't use anywhere near that much, but any new vehicle that uses a quart per 800 miles or less is operating within specification and is not "defective". It's really "luck of the draw" if you happen to get the vehicle that is near that specification, but it happens with all brands, foreign and domestic.

[capncarl]

I have to admit that I am suprised with reports of brakes components that are not considered expendables with this short life! I've been involved in hobby class auto modification, building, racing and personal car repair since 1967 but do not keep up with the rest of the world auto repairs. This subject is right in line with my rant about mfg,s putting out tools without the proper engineering and r&d, except people's lives are at stake. Gosh, they will recall a car if the seat belt bolt is not strong enough and not recall a vehicle when the brakes fail?
My 1980 Honda Civic had 360,000+ miles on it when I sold 10 years ago, and it still had the original brake calipers and rear cylinders.
capncarl

[Woodshark]

My wife and I have been driving Dodge Caravans the last 15 years. I've never had to replace rear drums even though I put about 150K miles on my vans before I sell them.

Same here. I drive a 1998 Plymouth Grand Voyager with almost 150K. Third set of pads on the front. The rear is all still original factory.

[atgcpaul]

We did Christmas at my parents' new house--140 miles away with not too many stores nearby--and my Dad and I changed out the front brakes and rotors before Christmas dinner. We also bled the front brakes (yes, I know the rears should be done first, but I wasn't looking for a challenge) The next day we did the rear. All the rotors required a bit of hammering but they all came out.

The very last screw holding the last rotor would not budge. I'm so glad I bought an impact driver. The screw head was almost stripped out and by the 10th whack of the hammer, it moved. Hallelujah!

The drive back was uneventful--I drove it around locally to break them in. Everything seems good now.

I originally thought of having them resurfaced, but the metal in the rotor seems pretty soft. Lots of dings from the hammer whacks.

The pads didn't look too bad, but I'm not really sure. Do you measure from the top of the pad down to the supporting metal or from the pad to the top of the squeal device? Can it only be measured with the wheel off? I can't imagine that's the case.

Now my Dad wants me to look into changing the brakes on his Chevy Tahoe (which seems simple enough) and his MB E350. The Benz dealer wants $1200 for new pads and rotors.