Frankentable!

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  • Richard in Smithville
    Veteran Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 3014
    • On the TARDIS
    • BT 3100

    Frankentable!

    I was recently commissioned to strip and refinish an old table. It's all solid wood, heavily built...........................and came with multiple layers of finish! Guy's, I really should have run from this one.

    So with multiple applications of stripper, loads of scraping, and a ton of sanding, I discovered that the table was mostly oak( It came with cherry legs and a cherry leaf!). The only problem; one side is some of the most beautiful red oak I have seen. Loads of colour! The other side is some very white, white oak.

    I have applied minwax red oak stain and even though I let it soak on the white side longer, you can still see a difference. What I thought I might do is let the stain dry, then lightly sand the darker side and reapply a light coat of finish.

    Any thoughts that might give me better results?
    From the "deep south" part of Canada

    Richard in Smithville

    http://richardspensandthings.blogspot.com/
  • pelligrini
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2007
    • 4217
    • Fort Worth, TX
    • Craftsman 21829

    #2
    Wouldn't it be easier to darken up the lighter side with another application of stain?
    Erik

    Comment

    • Ed62
      The Full Monte
      • Oct 2006
      • 6022
      • NW Indiana
      • BT3K

      #3
      Richard, I wish I had some words of wisdom, but as usual, I have more questions than answers. I wonder if it would help to post an image so those with more skill at finishing could come up with a suggestion for you? Is it a difference that would make you say some very bad words, or is it something you really have to look for?

      Ed
      Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

      For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

      Comment

      • BadeMillsap
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 868
        • Bulverde, Texas, USA.
        • Grizzly G1023SL

        #4
        Pictures would help ... For years now I have preferred using dye vs stain because I feel like I have much better color control ... you can get the "finish sheen" after you get the color with things like poly. Just a thought ..
        "Like an old desperado, I paint the town beige ..." REK
        Bade Millsap
        Bulverde, Texas
        => Bade's Personal Web Log
        => Bade's Lutherie Web Log

        Comment

        • JR
          The Full Monte
          • Feb 2004
          • 5633
          • Eugene, OR
          • BT3000

          #5
          Man, I don't think there's an easy way of this one!

          In general, the best way to get a consistent finish on woods with varying shades is to first apply a seal coat or even two coats. Then use gel stain across the entire surface. One or two coats of stain would give you an idea of how effective the stain would be. At that pint you'd start applying the stain to only the lighter section until you get a uniform result. A final coat across the whole surface might be a good idea.

          What's that you say? You have no way-back machine, Sherman?

          For the most predictable result, consider sanding the whole thing and starting over, using the technique I suggested above. Or...

          You could throw caution to the wind and start staining only the lighter section with a darker stain, intended to make the lighter wood match the color of the stained darker wood. This would necessitate some trial on a piece of white oak, using a variety of colors or mixes of colors. If you mix colors, make sure you use and record the specific proportions.

          Good luck!
          JR

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20914
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #6
            arrange the room lighting so that the light side of the oak is in the dark side of the room?
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • leehljp
              Just me
              • Dec 2002
              • 8429
              • Tunica, MS
              • BT3000/3100

              #7
              I had this problem with the two book cases that I made for my daughter in Japan and brought back to the States. I had enough wood (Philippine mohagany) which came out of an early '50s student center, torn down in 2002 in Kobe. Most was the equivalent of 5/4's thick finished all sides. BUT, some was a reddish-pink and and some yellowish. I did not have enough of either to compete the project with only one color.

              I had to stain it all dark brown (with paint) before it looked the same. Light and medium dark stains/paint just didn't do it. I ended up getting some almost chocolate brown paint, laying it on and wiping off. Another coat and then a light coat of the paint itself. You can see the wood and grain; it is dark, but at least it evened out in color although it overpowered the original colors. I really did not have a choice.

              I did have many many 2" by about 18" that I tested stains, dyes and paints over the course of several months before coming to a conclusion as to best method.
              Hank Lee

              Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

              Comment

              • chopnhack
                Veteran Member
                • Oct 2006
                • 3779
                • Florida
                • Ryobi BT3100

                #8
                From my limited finishing tool bag.... spray finish and tone, like the factory does, then top coat generously with whatever you prefer. Perhaps not the best suggestion for something like a period piece, but it should solve your problem as it lays down an even coloring throughout the piece. HTH
                I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

                Comment

                • Carpenter96
                  Established Member
                  • Aug 2011
                  • 178
                  • Barrie ON Canada
                  • BT 3000

                  #9
                  When I used to restore antique wooden boats we would use a dye in combination with a stain because we were trying to match wood that was 100 years or so old. The result was quite good to the point where even we could not see the difference. The customers were very pleased and could not notice where thr new plnks were. Regards Bob

                  Comment

                  • leehljp
                    Just me
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 8429
                    • Tunica, MS
                    • BT3000/3100

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Carpenter96
                    When I used to restore antique wooden boats we would use a dye in combination with a stain because we were trying to match wood that was 100 years or so old. The result was quite good to the point where even we could not see the difference. The customers were very pleased and could not notice where thr new plnks were. Regards Bob
                    I didn't know how to do this (dye) and did not have the experience but I did entertain the thought of dye instead of stain when I made the bookcases. Being overseas at the time and not having access in Japan to products that anyone would have referenced on this forum made me just give up on the idea of even trying.

                    I started to mention "dye" earlier in the previous post, but my lack of knowledge of the process made me hold back.

                    I am glad you mentioned this and hopefully your experience as to techniques and ideas will help maybe this thread, and others in the future.
                    Last edited by leehljp; 07-28-2013, 09:06 AM.
                    Hank Lee

                    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                    Comment

                    • BadeMillsap
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 868
                      • Bulverde, Texas, USA.
                      • Grizzly G1023SL

                      #11
                      Some stain vs dye comparison

                      As I mentioned earlier in the thread I use dye regularly to get better control of color and to help emphasize grain. It's a very common color agent in lutherie.

                      This video while at times a little elementary and repetitive gives, I believe, a pretty good comparison of stains vs dyes ...

                      Stains vs Dyes video .

                      You can mix stain and dye as long as the "base medium" is compatible ... I often prefer using alcohol rather than water as the medium to avoid grain raising but I use water at times as well.

                      Transtint is one brand I use that is both water and alcohol soluble.
                      "Like an old desperado, I paint the town beige ..." REK
                      Bade Millsap
                      Bulverde, Texas
                      => Bade's Personal Web Log
                      => Bade's Lutherie Web Log

                      Comment

                      • Richard in Smithville
                        Veteran Member
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 3014
                        • On the TARDIS
                        • BT 3100

                        #12
                        Thank you for the wealth of support and suggestions. I have been talking with a cabinet maker fried a few provinces away from me and his idea was to see if sanding would bring the colours closer and then use a coloured top coat to seal it all in. I'll let you know how I make out.
                        From the "deep south" part of Canada

                        Richard in Smithville

                        http://richardspensandthings.blogspot.com/

                        Comment

                        • chopnhack
                          Veteran Member
                          • Oct 2006
                          • 3779
                          • Florida
                          • Ryobi BT3100

                          #13
                          He is talking about toning, and its a good way of getting to where you need to be. Will there be pics?
                          I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

                          Comment

                          • Richard in Smithville
                            Veteran Member
                            • Oct 2006
                            • 3014
                            • On the TARDIS
                            • BT 3100

                            #14
                            Seeing as I'm in a partial state of finishing, I'll post some completed photo's when it's done.
                            From the "deep south" part of Canada

                            Richard in Smithville

                            http://richardspensandthings.blogspot.com/

                            Comment

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