Steps/Stair question

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  • leehljp
    Just me
    • Dec 2002
    • 8429
    • Tunica, MS
    • BT3000/3100

    Steps/Stair question

    My daughter has a 10 x 12 ft deck off of her bedroom that has railings all the way around and no steps to the back yard. I want to add some steps, and this leads to my question.

    I want to build the steps (and risers) instead of buying them pre-cut.

    Here are the dimensions:
    30 inches ground to deck, floor level.
    42 inches wide, so that rails can be added to the sides and allow at least 36 inches for future of moving things into and out of the house from the back side.

    I know that I will need 3 stringers on 12 inch boards.

    Tread/steps - I am not sure of 8 inch or 10 inch treads

    MY CONCERN (and I know that I am doing this backwards) is the ANGLE. What is the general angles of the risers to the decking? At first I thought 45° and then realized that would be too steep. What is a good angle for decking steps? 30°, 35°?

    I will adjust the tread depth/width and riser after I get my angle set. Does this make sense?

    It will be three weeks before I do this, but I like to have the figures in my head visualized before starting.
    Last edited by leehljp; 08-09-2013, 10:19 AM. Reason: Correct the terminology
    Hank Lee

    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!
  • Mr__Bill
    Veteran Member
    • May 2007
    • 2096
    • Tacoma, WA
    • BT3000

    #2
    Lee, here is a handy-dandy calculator that figures all that out for you.

    Stairs Calculator


    Another site with helpful information


    Local building codes may have a say in it too.

    I always added the riser to the stairs though many leave them open. My thought is it's dangerous to have them open with little kids using them. The riser also adds strength and you may not need the center stringer.

    Bill
    fresh picked ripe tomatoes are great, the deer think so too...
    Last edited by Mr__Bill; 08-09-2013, 10:44 AM. Reason: adding information

    Comment

    • leehljp
      Just me
      • Dec 2002
      • 8429
      • Tunica, MS
      • BT3000/3100

      #3
      Originally posted by Mr__Bill
      Lee, here is a handy-dandy calculator that figures all that out for you.

      Stairs Calculator


      Another site with helpful information


      Local building codes may have a say in it too.

      I always added the riser to the stairs though many leave them open. My thought is it's dangerous to have them open with little kids using them. The riser also adds strength and you may not need the center stringer.

      Bill
      fresh picked ripe tomatoes are great, the deer think so too...
      Thanks for this information. Especially the riser adding strength. VEry helpful.
      Hank Lee

      Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

      Comment

      • pelligrini
        Veteran Member
        • Apr 2007
        • 4217
        • Fort Worth, TX
        • Craftsman 21829

        #4
        10" tread depth is minimum in most building codes and jurisdictions. Open risers are allowed, but most places won't allow any opening greater than 4".
        Erik

        Comment

        • JimD
          Veteran Member
          • Feb 2003
          • 4187
          • Lexington, SC.

          #5
          Stairs deal with rise and run. A typical minimum run would be about 10 inches. A typical maximum rise would be about 7.75 inches. For a total 30 inch rise I would probably use 5 steps. You could probably do 4, that's only 7.5 inches which most codes would allow. The run would be determined by the material. The last outdoor stairs I built I used two pieces of wood dust + plastic deck floor material that was about 5.5 inches wide. That gives over a 11 inch stair which should satisfy code. The composite stuff requires 12 inch stringer spacing. You could use PT and save money on material.

          To lay out the stringers it helps to have "stair gauges". They are kind of like bolts that you clamp to a carpenters square. The run of the stringer should be reduced because the tread will hang over. I'd make it about 10 inches run and 6 inch rise. I would attach the stringers to the perimeter framing of the deck such that the last step up is onto the deck. If you do it that way, the stringer only gets 4 rises and treads. Finally, remember that the rise of the bottom stair has to be reduced by the thickness of the treads. It helps me to make a sketch. I also draw it out on the stringer stock and check it again before I start to cut. I'd cut one stringer and then use it as the pattern for the others (after trying it in position against the deck).

          Jim

          Comment

          • leehljp
            Just me
            • Dec 2002
            • 8429
            • Tunica, MS
            • BT3000/3100

            #6
            Originally posted by JimD
            I would attach the stringers to the perimeter framing of the deck such that the last step up is onto the deck. If you do it that way, the stringer only gets 4 rises and treads. Finally, remember that the rise of the bottom stair has to be reduced by the thickness of the treads. It helps me to make a sketch. I also draw it out on the stringer stock and check it again before I start to cut. I'd cut one stringer and then use it as the pattern for the others (after trying it in position against the deck).

            Jim
            I was at HD today and found some pre-made stringers for $10.97. Bought 2. It would cost me that for lumber before cutting, so I decided to just go that route. I will attach the stringers to the perimeter framing as you said. I also saw in another web site - a strong recommendation to NOT make the first step the same height at the decking. The HD stringers will come in at about 4 inches below the decking height. Each step is 10 inches front to back, but I plan on 1 inch overhang.

            Here is the HD link.

            I pulled one out, propped it up against a wall until the base as flat and the steps were level, it measured in a 26 inches height at the wall which was perfect for what I wanted. (I went to the tool department and "borrowed" a rule and level. Of course I put them back after checking the stringer out.)
            Hank Lee

            Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

            Comment

            • os1kne
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2003
              • 901
              • Atlanta, GA
              • BT3100

              #7
              I built a deck for my home a couple of months ago. I wish that I'd known about that Stair Calculator link - it would have saved me a bunch of time and frustration.

              If possible, I recommend using the pre-cut stringers - there just isn't any money to be saved in cutting your own. I needed more stairs than you can get with the pre-cut stringers, so I cut my own (using 2x12s, the pre-cut stringers appeared to be made from 2x10s). Cutting your own isn't terribly hard, but it is time consuming because you tend to triple-check everything for fear of ruining an expensive piece of lumber.
              Bill

              Comment

              • jking
                Senior Member
                • May 2003
                • 972
                • Des Moines, IA.
                • BT3100

                #8
                Originally posted by leehljp
                I was at HD today and found some pre-made stringers for $10.97. Bought 2. It would cost me that for lumber before cutting, so I decided to just go that route. I will attach the stringers to the perimeter framing as you said. I also saw in another web site - a strong recommendation to NOT make the first step the same height at the decking. The HD stringers will come in at about 4 inches below the decking height. Each step is 10 inches front to back, but I plan on 1 inch overhang.

                Here is the HD link.

                I pulled one out, propped it up against a wall until the base as flat and the steps were level, it measured in a 26 inches height at the wall which was perfect for what I wanted. (I went to the tool department and "borrowed" a rule and level. Of course I put them back after checking the stringer out.)
                I'm curious what the reasoning was behind the recommendation to not make the first step the same height. My understanding was all steps in a run of stairs need to be the same height.

                Comment

                • leehljp
                  Just me
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 8429
                  • Tunica, MS
                  • BT3000/3100

                  #9
                  Originally posted by jking
                  I'm curious what the reasoning was behind the recommendation to not make the first step the same height. My understanding was all steps in a run of stairs need to be the same height.
                  This is going to be a "uhh, I don't know why" statement, but something I noticed one fellow said in a link that I searched:



                  After step 4 on the link, the writer adds: "I think that my “top 4” list of things that you need to be aware of when building your first set of stairs are: Don’t put your top tread even with your deck."

                  After reading that, I did realize that very few steps start with the top step level with the deck or floor.
                  Hank Lee

                  Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                  Comment

                  • jking
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2003
                    • 972
                    • Des Moines, IA.
                    • BT3100

                    #10
                    Oh, that's something different than what I understood from the other post.

                    Comment

                    • Stytooner
                      Roll Tide RIP Lee
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 4301
                      • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
                      • BT3100

                      #11
                      For simple deck stairs, it is easier to make the first step part of the deck or the same height. Otherwise you will need to build something else below deck to catch the stringers.
                      Lee

                      Comment

                      • Carpenter96
                        Established Member
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 178
                        • Barrie ON Canada
                        • BT 3000

                        #12
                        Hi Lee. I will tell you that many studies have been done that show if a single step is out by more than 1/8" people will trip on that step. Precut stringers rarely work out ok. The unit rise must be the same for each step. For your total rise you should have either a 7 1/2" unit rise(4 steps or a 6"unit rise(5 steps), one the units of rise is your landing or deck. You will have one less tread than rises. You can use a hanger board ( piece of plywood) or metal hanger straps. Just because HD sells them doesn't make them right (RE. the precut stringers).

                        Regards Bob

                        Comment

                        • JimD
                          Veteran Member
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 4187
                          • Lexington, SC.

                          #13
                          It is usually pretty easy to hang the stringers from the band beam down the rise of the rest of the stairs. For example, if you have a 6 inch rise and a 2x10 band beam you have about 3 inches at the bottom of the band beam you can use to attach the stringes. It can be done with a metal strap or a 2x4 attached to the stringers.

                          With pre-made stringers, the step that is usually off is the bottom step. The ground is rarely level so the step won't be perfectly the same as the others regardless. If it is close enough to look right I would probably just go with pre-cut stringers. On the other hand, if the bottom step will be a couple inches more or less than the others, I would cut the stringers myself. I don't think being off a little is a big trip hazard on this bottom step on and off the ground. For the rest of the stairs, I agree 100% that they must be consistent or somebody will trip.

                          Jim

                          Comment

                          • Stytooner
                            Roll Tide RIP Lee
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 4301
                            • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
                            • BT3100

                            #14
                            I have built them both ways and both work fine. I should have said a smaller simple deck. It might have double 2x8" bands. That isn't enough to catch stringers by itself. Never used any strapping. What I have done is added two more short posts behind the banding and furred them out to catch the stringers. That does make for a nice solid mount.
                            I was thinking the reason he may suggest not to use the top step even with the deck is because of hand rail consistency. You would have to jog it out and then down to maintain a particular height and angle above each tread.
                            Lee

                            Comment

                            • pelligrini
                              Veteran Member
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 4217
                              • Fort Worth, TX
                              • Craftsman 21829

                              #15
                              The thing about premade stringers is that there is a strong possibility for there to be a difference in riser height at the top or bottom, which creates a tripping hazard. They can work well when you can adjust the landing to an exact height. Most codes stipulate a tolerance of a 3/8" difference between the tallest riser height and the shortest for any flight of stairs. The closer you can get to the risers being the same the better, especially for longer runs. The body and mind will expect a rhythm, when it gets interrupted with something out of conformity a possibility of tripping is made much greater.
                              Erik

                              Comment

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