stuff where you can really tell the difference....

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  • durango dude
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 934
    • a thousand or so feet above insanity
    • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

    stuff where you can really tell the difference....

    I often hear "is it worth ....." from woodworking friends, who typically want to know what's worth the extra few bucks.

    Here's the tools where I've seen the difference:

    a) Saw blades ----- unambiguously worth it to spend extra
    I have a 10 40 Freud blade on my saw.


    b) Fortsner drill bits ---- unambiguously worth it
    Replaced a few select bits that I picked up from Lowe's.
    In my case - went from an inexpensive PC set to individual freud bits
    You can really see the difference looking at the shavings. The PC bits
    tore wood ---- the Freud bits slice it.

    c) Router bits -----
    Replacing bits from Sears with Freud Diablo bits. The difference is evident.


    I'm guessing my next upgrade adventure will involve my chisels.
    I have an inexpensive Wood River set, right now. Have been looking at a Narex set for some time.
  • Knottscott
    Veteran Member
    • Dec 2004
    • 3815
    • Rochester, NY.
    • 2008 Shop Fox W1677

    #2
    Closeouts and clearance can be exceptions, but if its always cheaply priced, it's usually false economy. Good quality vs low end of almost any tool is notable. How expensive it actually is, is often a matter of timing and research.

    1. Blades and bits definitely make a notable difference.
    *Forrest, Freud, Infinity, Ridge Carbide, Tenryu, Delta Industrial, CMT, Irwin Marples, DW Precision Trim, Whiteside, Amana, Systmatic, Guhdo, Popular Tools, Leitz, etc...almost always worth it.
    *Workforce, Avanti/Avanti Pro, Skil, Vermont American, most Craftsman, most HF, Ryobi, Irwin Marathon/Classic, Oldham contractor series, DW construction series...almost always not worth it. I cringe every time I read about someone buying a 2-pack of lousy blades...great, now you've got two lousy blades...it's right up with with two leaky cups

    2. Bosch jig saw vs B&D.

    3. Router - Milwaukee, Bosch, PC, Hitachi, vs old Ryobi/Craftsman, definitely worth it!
    Last edited by Knottscott; 02-23-2015, 01:15 PM.
    Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

    Comment

    • dbhost
      Slow and steady
      • Apr 2008
      • 9209
      • League City, Texas
      • Ryobi BT3100

      #3
      Even a minor "Step up" from Skil / B&D to Ryobi has yielded considerably notable improvements in quality of results in areas such as sander / jig saws.

      Blades. For the jig saw Bosch, for any circular saw type blades, Freud.

      Forstner bits. I started off with Porter Cables and they stank.. Just awful. I went with Grizzly and they are okay. The few Freud bits I have are awesome!

      Router bits, I started with Skil / Craftsman and got acceptable results. Since upgraded to MLCS / Freud and Eagle America and had great results with them...

      Abrasives. I will use HF abrasives when I have to. I prefer 3M for durability, and performance... But sometimes that isn't an option...

      Hoses. I miss HF selling goodyear hoses. The Central Pnuematics leave a bit to be desired...
      Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

      Comment

      • Neal
        Established Member
        • Apr 2012
        • 181
        • Williamstown, WV (Mid Ohio Valley)
        • Ryobi BT3000

        #4
        I agree on the saw blades. My freud glue line rip and Oshlun track saw blade have been tremendous improvements over anything else I've used. The Dewalt blades were OK.

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20913
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #5
          Originally posted by durango dude
          I often hear "is it worth ....." from woodworking friends, who typically want to know what's worth the extra few bucks.

          Here's the tools where I've seen the difference:

          a) Saw blades ----- unambiguously worth it to spend extra
          I have a 10 40 Freud blade on my saw.


          b) Fortsner drill bits ---- unambiguously worth it
          Replaced a few select bits that I picked up from Lowe's.
          In my case - went from an inexpensive PC set to individual freud bits
          You can really see the difference looking at the shavings. The PC bits
          tore wood ---- the Freud bits slice it.

          c) Router bits -----
          Replacing bits from Sears with Freud Diablo bits. The difference is evident.


          I'm guessing my next upgrade adventure will involve my chisels.
          I have an inexpensive Wood River set, right now. Have been looking at a Narex set for some time.
          Notice that all the stuff you name as critical has cutting edges on them. Blades. Forstner bits. router bits. That should tell you where the money goes.
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • poolhound
            Veteran Member
            • Mar 2006
            • 3195
            • Phoenix, AZ
            • BT3100

            #6
            Scott I agree about the blades and there is nothing more sweet than using a newly sharpened blade. In nearly all cases a good quality resharpened blade will cut better than a new cheap one.

            BTW Scott I met your namesake the other week, Scott Whiting of Scotts Sharpening as he just tuned up my old WWII and Tenryu GM (new tooth too). I also had him sharpen my original BT blade as its one of the few GP flat ground blades around. If any of you need sharpening I can not recommend him enough.

            BTW2 Cheap blades do have their uses i.e. when you want to chomp your way through rough cutting old reclaimed lumber. Or if you are laying laminate flooring. I bought a reasonable 80T Avanti for $20 to go through 4 rooms worth of flooring knowing fully that it would be thrown away at the end but that it didnt wreck any of my decent blades.

            Lastly I love my Bosch jigsaw. No other I have ever owned could cut a straight line!

            Originally posted by Knottscott
            1. Blades and bits definitely make a notable difference.
            *Forrest, Freud, Infinity, Ridge Carbide, Tenryu, Delta Industrial, CMT, Irwin Marples, DW Precision Trim, Whiteside, Amana, Systmatic, Guhdo, Popular Tools, Leitz, etc...almost always worth it.
            *Workforce, Avanti/Avanti Pro, Skil, Vermont American, most Craftsman, most HF, Ryobi, Irwin Marathon/Classic, Oldham contractor series, DW construction series...almost always not worth it. I cringe every time I read about someone buying a 2-pack of lousy blades...great, now you've got two lousy blades...it's right up with with two leaky cups

            2. Bosch jig saw vs B&D.
            Jon

            Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
            ________________________________

            We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
            techzibits.com

            Comment

            • Pappy
              The Full Monte
              • Dec 2002
              • 10453
              • San Marcos, TX, USA.
              • BT3000 (x2)

              #7
              I'll add a non-tool item to the list. When building mobile bases don't scrimp on the casters. If you are going to use HF or big box casters, figure they will handle about 1/2 of the maximum they are rated at. The bearings in the axles (if any) and the swivels are weak points.
              Don, aka Pappy,

              Wise men talk because they have something to say,
              Fools because they have to say something.
              Plato

              Comment

              • lrr
                Established Member
                • Apr 2006
                • 380
                • Fort Collins, Colorado
                • Ryobi BT-3100

                #8
                I put a a Forrest 30 tooth ripping blade on my BT3100 last year. Made a huge difference. I decided against their combo blade since I only use the saw for ripping. This blade has breathed some much needed new life into a saw I had considered underpowered for my needs. I'll still upgrade, but it'll do fine for awhile longer.

                I put a Freud 60 tooth blade on my radial arm saw back in the 80s. Very good blade. I bought an Amana on sale about a year ago, also 60T, and it was a bit of a gamble since I'd not really heard much about them. It has proven to be a very clean cutting blade.
                Lee

                Comment

                • durango dude
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 934
                  • a thousand or so feet above insanity
                  • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

                  #9
                  Yup, @ Lchien.

                  I noticed the pattern, but figured I'd let someone that's much brighter than me point it out.

                  Comment

                  • tfischer
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 2343
                    • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
                    • BT3100

                    #10
                    I can't afford/justify top-quality tools for everything I own. So sometimes I'll buy a cheaper tool, just to see how much I'll use it and how well the cheaper one works. If it turns out to be a tool I use frequently, and I think I can improve my experience by replacing it with a higher quality one, I'll do that.

                    On the other hand if it's a tool I know I'm going to use frequently, or something like the blade where I know it isn't worth skimping... it's always the good one from the start.

                    Comment

                    • dbhost
                      Slow and steady
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 9209
                      • League City, Texas
                      • Ryobi BT3100

                      #11
                      Oddly enough, sometimes the cheap brand is the better item. The HUGE example of that is the HF pocket hole jig... Everything about it is spot on, well made and super accurate. Not bashing the Kreg, but why would I buy a molded plastic Kreg when I could have a precision machined, more adjustable, better designed work of aluminum and tempered steel art?

                      The only weak point I find in the HF jig is the lack of a dust collection port. And it is so easy to rig up a shop vac to clean up that I just don't worry about it...
                      Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

                      Comment

                      • Neal
                        Established Member
                        • Apr 2012
                        • 181
                        • Williamstown, WV (Mid Ohio Valley)
                        • Ryobi BT3000

                        #12
                        Originally posted by dbhost
                        Oddly enough, sometimes the cheap brand is the better item. The HUGE example of that is the HF pocket hole jig... Everything about it is spot on, well made and super accurate. Not bashing the Kreg, but why would I buy a molded plastic Kreg when I could have a precision machined, more adjustable, better designed work of aluminum and tempered steel art?

                        The only weak point I find in the HF jig is the lack of a dust collection port. And it is so easy to rig up a shop vac to clean up that I just don't worry about it...
                        Agreed. I have used mine for a whole lot of projects and I have never been disappointed.

                        Comment

                        • Knottscott
                          Veteran Member
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 3815
                          • Rochester, NY.
                          • 2008 Shop Fox W1677

                          #13
                          Originally posted by tfischer
                          I can't afford/justify top-quality tools for everything I own. So sometimes I'll buy a cheaper tool, just to see how much I'll use it and how well the cheaper one works. If it turns out to be a tool I use frequently, and I think I can improve my experience by replacing it with a higher quality one, I'll do that.

                          On the other hand if it's a tool I know I'm going to use frequently, or something like the blade where I know it isn't worth skimping... it's always the good one from the start.
                          There's a fine line between saving money and spending more. Sometimes I save money with a "bargain", sometimes I spend more! Replacing a cheaper tool with a better tool, is usually more expensive than buying the better tool in the first place. With the wonders of the internet, it's a lot easier to research upfront than it used to be....
                          Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

                          Comment

                          • tfischer
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 2343
                            • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
                            • BT3100

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Knottscott
                            There's a fine line between saving money and spending more. Sometimes I save money with a "bargain", sometimes I spend more! Replacing a cheaper tool with a better tool, is usually more expensive than buying the better tool in the first place. With the wonders of the internet, it's a lot easier to research upfront than it used to be....
                            I agree, but like I said, if I have 1000 tools, I might be able to buy the "premium" on 10 and the "pretty good" on 50. If I know in advance where the sweet spot is, great, but if not, I'd rather err on the side of replacing a $30 tool with a $300 one than have a bunch of $300 tools sit in a drawer unused

                            ... and it's pretty ironic that the Kreg jig vs HF came up, since that's one tool I "splurged" on after seeing a demo at a WW show (the kreg jig) and I've virtually never used it.

                            Comment

                            • LinuxRandal
                              Veteran Member
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 4889
                              • Independence, MO, USA.
                              • bt3100

                              #15
                              As the OP mentioned chisels, one can improve them with sharpening, and there are old timers online, that talk about things like putting them in an oven, etc. to retemper them so they stay sharp longer.
                              A good tool is great, but one can learn skills from a lesser tool that still benefit with a better one, IMHO.
                              That said, a lot of my better tools were bought when there was a bargain or deal to be had. I try to avoid paying full retail.
                              She couldn't tell the difference between the escape pod, and the bathroom. We had to go back for her.........................Twice.

                              Comment

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