changing out own car brakes

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  • atgcpaul
    Veteran Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 4055
    • Maryland
    • Grizzly 1023SLX

    changing out own car brakes

    At my last oil change, dealership said I should changed my brakes and surface my rotors. $600. I only let them change my oil-$4-and that's it. I have a good mechanic for the rest. Looking at Pep Boys, their mid-grade brakes and rotors would cost me $425 plus tax. Also seems like average to surface rotors would cost as much as new. I don't know if the dealership would even be using mid-grade stuff.

    I've been reading a lot online and watching YouTube. I think I'm up for it. I'm thinking I would get all new stuff and have the rotors checked to see how much life is left (car has 50K miles and a lot of stop/go traffic). Maybe get the rotors surfaced for the next time I need brakes. How's that sound?
  • jdon
    Established Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 401
    • Snoqualmie, Wash.
    • BT3100

    #2
    Doing a brake job is one of the dwindling list of things a shade tree mechanic can still do for his car, what with all the computerization, anti-pollution, etc. You can get much better components installed, much more cheaply than at the dealer or chain repair joints.

    If you're going to replace the pads, you might as well replace the rotors at the same time. Old rotors can be warped or grooved, and will just end up wearing out the new pads faster than normal.

    I've found that for our cars (Toyota Camrys), there is a marginal price between have a rotor resurfaced and a new one, so I've always gone with new rotors.

    I've had good luck with Monroe ceramic pads- wear like, well, ceramic, and tend to be very quiet. I've found Rock Auto and Amazon to be good sources of components, at good prices.

    It's not difficult- just keep track of the orientation of various parts as you remove them and install new parts the same way. You always have the back up of the opposite wheel as a template, if you get confused. Remember to bleed the brakes when you're done.

    Good luck!

    Comment

    • capncarl
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 3564
      • Leesburg Georgia USA
      • SawStop CTS

      #3
      Like jdon said, not that difficult. U tube can be a great resource. The hardest thing I've found with new cars is getting them jacked up. Remember the jack stands. You will save big bucks doing them yourself, and can by more planes and clamps!

      Comment

      • Cochese
        Veteran Member
        • Jun 2010
        • 1988

        #4
        Four rotors should run about $200-$250, really good pads would be about $110 more. Of course this varies by the car.

        Look at the Duralast Gold CMax pads at Autozone. Little noise, little dust, lifetime replacement (bring in the old CMax pads after you pay for the new CMax ones, you get a refund). Don't know of a better deal than that.

        What kind of car? Hondas, you have to deal with that POS set screw that is as soft as cold gravy and strips easily.
        I have a little blog about my shop

        Comment

        • Black wallnut
          cycling to health
          • Jan 2003
          • 4715
          • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
          • BT3k 1999

          #5
          I'm in total agreement. I'll add though that you will need to crack open the bleeder screw while pushing the piston back in. On some GM vehicles if you do not do that you will ruin the proportioning valve. I learned that the hard way in the late 90's luckily working on a company vehicle so I did not have to pay the cost of my ignorance. Many parts store will rent tools if you need some that are "special" such as a vacuum bleeder.

          I agree with changing out rotors if gouges are present, otherwise take them in and have them measured. Be sure to buy a couple cans of brake-clean.
          Donate to my Tour de Cure


          marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

          Head servant of the forum

          ©

          Comment

          • atgcpaul
            Veteran Member
            • Aug 2003
            • 4055
            • Maryland
            • Grizzly 1023SLX

            #6
            It's a 2010 Hyundai Santa Fe. I've seen a few tutorials specific to this year so I feel good. At least two guys at work are avid car guys and have done it a few times. One of them has lent me their jack and stands before so I'll hit him up again. This is one of those times I wish I could park in my garage, though. I'll try to wrangle my Dad into helping and use the garage at his house.

            I also just made my very first cyber Monday purchase. Pep Boys did 30% off my whole order.

            Thanks and if there's any more advice, please keep it coming.

            Paul

            Comment

            • mpc
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2005
              • 979
              • Cypress, CA, USA.
              • BT3000 orig 13amp model

              #7
              D-I-Y brake jobs are not that tough and don't require too many specialized tools generally. Things you probably want to research before you get started:

              * what type of tool is needed to stuff the disk brake caliper/piston back into the bore. Some folks just squeeze it with big Channel-lock style pliers; this generally works okay for front brakes. Harbor Freight sells a special tool for disk brakes: basically a beefy bolt threaded into a thick slab of metal. Easy and more controlled than pliers. Less chance of something slipping and gouging rubber parts (brake caliper hose, the rubber seal around the piston, etc). For rear brakes - those ith the parking brake function - the pistons often SCREW back into the caliper body. Usually you'll find two notches or circular depressions in the piston face for a tool to grip. Beefy needle-nose pliers can work if the piston isn't coated with a thin layer of grime or rust as often happens in the snow belt. The HF disk brake tool includes round ends with various nibs to mate with the notches/depressions so it'll work for rear brakes as well as front brakes. Another common tool is a small metal cube-shaped thing with various protrusions; this hooks into the notches/depressions and is turned by a standard ratchet wrench. Dirt cheap too. It takes a few hands to work it though: 1 to hold the brake caliper, 1 to hold the wrench, and 1 to hold the tool.

              * A flare-nut wrench that fits the bleed ports on the brake calipers. Bleed ports tend to be soft metal (so the tip inside the caliper can deform easily to make a tight seal against the caliper body) and round off easily if a regular open-end wrench is used on them. I stick a hose to the bleed port run to a catch bucket/bottle and then open the bleed ports just a touch before driving the piston back into the caliper. This dumps the fluid pressure overboard instead of back-pressuring the master cylinder... it's rare but possible to pop seals on the master cylinder pistons from back pressure. Plus, when the piston is driven back into the caliper, the brake fluid behind it has to go somewhere - normally through the master cylinder and into the reservoir. If the reservoir is nearly full... it'll overflow. So I dump it overboard. I can then inspect the fluid for signs of particulates, water contamination, etc. to determine if a full fluid flush is necessary.

              * a spray can or two of brake parts cleaner. It's the fastest and easiest way to get fingerprints and other "oops" off the brake pads & rotor when you are done assembling stuff. Put a wide bucket under the brake parts before spraying though to catch the mess. For cleaning your hands after the job is done, Simple Green works quite well. The spray brake cleaner will work on your hands too... but if you get even the teeniest cut in your skin while doing the job the brake cleaner will find it and you'll think somebody is holding a branding iron to your skin. Simple Green doesn't hurt. And it's infinitely less abrasive than most of those "mechanics" soaps that feel like sandpaper.

              * Find out what type of brake fluid your car uses: DOT 3 or DOT 4 typically. 3 is the most common though many cars with ABS now require DOT 4 as it has some extra corrosion inhibitor chemicals needed by the very tightly fitting machined parts inside the ABS actuator assembly. Some cars with ABS units made by Continental (a big supplier to the auto industry) came with DOT 3 but now require DOT 4 after recalls and Service Bulletins because those ABS units could corrode internally with DOT 3 fluid... leading to jams that rendered the brakes inoperative. (!) Your owner's manual will specify the original fluid type, a call to a dealer service desk will determine if that's still the correct recommendation or if DOT 4 is now recommended. You may see DOT 5 fluid in stores... that's generally for racing applications only - and it has shorter life span than DOT 3 or 4... don't use it unless your vehicle specifically calls for it.

              Some dos and don'ts:
              * Keep a rag handy to wipe the worst of the gunk off your hands as you work. Try to handle the brake rotor and pads only by their edges - not the friction surfaces - to keep them as clean as possible. You'll need the spray brake cleaner anyway... but minimize the contamination as much as possible before cleaning. And note that standard DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid may eat into the brake pad friction material.

              * When you remove the caliper from the vehicle don't let it hang from the rubber brake hose. Use a bungee cord or rope to hog-tie the caliper to the suspension spring or some other object. Try not to twist the hose much especially if the hoses are older.

              * With the wheel & tire off the vehicle, look at the edge of the brake rotor/disk. Somewhere on it you'll find the minimum allowable thickness stamped into the metal. Get your trusty calipers out and measure the thickness at 90 degree intervals along the rotor. If those readings are a tad higher than the allowable number, the rotor can probably be "turned" (a metal lathe basically) to a) remove any warpage and b) make the surface dead-flat so the new brake pads will "bed in" properly and provide proper braking action with no noise. Disk brake rotors end up looking like records after a while; if those grooves are not machined out prior to installing new pads then only the tips of those grooves will contact the new pads leading to lousy braking, concentrated heat, and "glazing" of the pads which results in loud squeaking. Auto machine shops and many NAPA stores can turn rotors for a nominal fee; a few of the chain parts stores will turn for free if you buy the rest of the brake parts from them. New disks/rotors must be used if your existing disks/rotors are below the minimum thickness as well. Drum brakes have a similar wear specification: the maximum allowable inside diameter typically. Some cars, especially the rear brake rotors, may have a spec that says they can not be turned... must replace those rotors with new ones.

              * On most cars the brake disk/rotor is physically attached to the wheel hub (the part with the studs). It may just slip over the studs or it may have "C" rings holding it to the studs... those are the easy type. Sometimes though it's bolted - from behind - into the hub. That may require removing the hub. Not difficult but just more messy work. And you may need a puller tool - the hub will have 2 or 3 threaded holes (about a quarter inch in diameter) for the puller bolts. I've run across a few disks/rotors that have a single screw attaching them to the hub for some reason... that screw is often TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT. A friend's Honda was too tight - busted my impact screw tips trying to get that sucker free.

              * On most cars you'll find the caliper has a single piston on one side and nothing but cast metal reaching around the disk/rotor to support the second brake pad. That whole assembly mounts to the suspension/chassis with a pair of bolts typically. Those bolts will be coated with a special high-temp grease - DON'T WIPE IT OFF! Often those bolts can be identified because you'll see a rubber boot/bellows near the end of them to hold the grease inside. Such calipers are called "floating" calipers. When you apply the brakes, the piston moves out of the caliper and pushes on one pad. Once that pad pushes on the brake disk/rotor the piston motion causes the caliper to start moving until the opposite pad is pulled against the disk/rotor. Now there is no more "slop" in the system so any further extension of the piston causes BOTH pads to grip the disk/rotor. If those special bolts are missing the grease or otherwise bind, only the caliper-side pad might end up creating friction. Or the opposite side could be pulled hard into the disk/rotor when you use the brake and then fail to "float" away from the disk/rotor when you release the brakes --> dragging brake. When you remove the wheel & tire, look for a small window in the caliper. You'll see the edge of the rotor and the two brake pads. If one pad is worn significantly more than the other then the "floating" part of the caliper isn't floating and you need to find out why. Rust, pebbles trapped in the mechanism, and missing grease are the most common problems. If the brake fluid gets old, it'll have water in it (brake fluid is hygroscopic - it absorbs water vapor. This trapped water leads to a fine rust layer on the piston, jamming it in the caliper body. When you apply the brakes there is usually enough pressure to extend the piston - so the brakes work - but the rust keeps the piston from returning as you release the brakes so the brake drags and wears out that pad. Higher-priced cars, sports cars, etc may have calipers with pistons on both sides... or 2 pistons per side. $$ Some parts of the caliper may still need to float though so watch for those bolts.

              If your vehicle isn't really old or exposed to salts it'll probably take you longer to read this post than to do the brakes on one wheel.

              mpc

              edit: by the time I finished typing this a few other replies came in with the same advice!

              Comment

              • eccentrictinkerer
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2007
                • 669
                • Minneapolis, MN
                • BT-3000, 21829

                #8
                My wife and I have been driving Dodge Caravans the last 15 years. I can change front brakes in about 40 minutes total. Rotors cost about $22 so I replace rotors and 'loaded calipers' every other brake change.

                It only costs about $120 for a complete overhaul. I've never had to replace rear drums even though I put about 150K miles on my vans before I sell them.

                My 2007 has rear rotors so I'll keep an eye on them.
                You might think I haven't contributed much to the world, but a large number
                of the warning labels on tools can be traced back to things I've done...

                Comment

                • atgcpaul
                  Veteran Member
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 4055
                  • Maryland
                  • Grizzly 1023SLX

                  #9
                  Originally posted by mpc
                  mpc

                  edit: by the time I finished typing this a few other replies came in with the same advice!
                  Thanks so much for all the information. I've been wondering how the rotors are attached but what I've been seeing for my car, they probably slip over the studs. I guess it'll be clearer when I go pick up the replacements.

                  Comment

                  • Condoman44
                    Established Member
                    • Nov 2013
                    • 178
                    • CT near Norwich
                    • Ryobi BT3000

                    #10
                    Rotors

                    I have never been a fan of doing anything to rotors in all the vehicles I have ever changed pads and shoes in.

                    Not once have I ever had an issue with rotors, maybe I have just been lucky. Several friends agree that it is only a money maker for service folks. This assumes you have none of the issues associated with bad or warped rotors going in to the job.

                    Just my $.02.

                    Comment

                    • Cochese
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 1988

                      #11
                      A C-clamp and a thin piece of anything will get most pistons back in.

                      Invest in a pair of mechanic's gloves at about $10. Well worth the cost. Surgical-style gloves rip at the earliest opportunity, but are better than nothing.

                      I typically agree about rotors, except in German cars. They for some reason use a softer material that easily wears.
                      I have a little blog about my shop

                      Comment

                      • TB Roye
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 2969
                        • Sacramento, CA, USA.
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        You also might go Pep Boys and get a repair manual for the make and year of you vehicle Amazon has them also if one of the Auto stores doesn't . You can also go on line Google Remove and replace pad and Rotor on "year make and model" of you car. It isn't that bad I have replace the rotors on all my vehicles at least once. Drum brakes are a pain Disc are easy.

                        tom

                        Comment

                        • Cochese
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 1988

                          #13
                          One of the certification exams I did in school was a drum brake disassembly and reassembly. I don't remember if it was 30 seconds or a minute.
                          I have a little blog about my shop

                          Comment

                          • MBG
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 945
                            • Chicago, Illinois.
                            • Craftsman 21829

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Condoman44
                            I have never been a fan of doing anything to rotors in all the vehicles I have ever changed pads and shoes in.

                            Not once have I ever had an issue with rotors, maybe I have just been lucky. Several friends agree that it is only a money maker for service folks. This assumes you have none of the issues associated with bad or warped rotors going in to the job.

                            Just my $.02.
                            Depends on the vehicle. On my wife's Suburban I can just change pads. But on my 2005 Malibu the rotors are just about toast at 40-50,000 miles.

                            Mike

                            Comment

                            • durango dude
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 934
                              • a thousand or so feet above insanity
                              • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

                              #15
                              Originally posted by atgcpaul
                              At my last oil change, dealership said I should changed my brakes and surface my rotors.
                              All too often the rotors are automatic. My jeep goes through em like a pastry chef goes through butter.

                              Turning rotors for my car (Jeep Grand Cherokee) is not all that much less than buying rotors (my source is JC Whitney). Besides - I know exactly what's on the car with new parts. So - I just replace the rotors every other brake job.

                              In my case (4x4), I have amazingly easy rotors ----- there's no reason to pay anyone to change them ---- they slide on and off.

                              Some models have bearings built-in ---- which is a little more complicated.

                              If you tow - you want great rotors and pads for stopping power. (I tow a 3000 pound trailer).

                              My Jeep has 175k miles on it. I replaced pads and rotors all the way around for about $200 (plus cleaner fluid, brake fluid, and high speed grease).
                              Last edited by durango dude; 12-02-2014, 03:47 PM.

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