Rules of the road. Right of way questions

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  • atgcpaul
    Veteran Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 4055
    • Maryland
    • Grizzly 1023SLX

    Rules of the road. Right of way questions

    I see a lot of stupid stuff on the road and never assume that the other driver is going to do the sensible thing. The number one potential area for accidents seems to be when someone needs to merge into the traffic lane from an on-ramp, parking lot, or side street. I think I know what the "right" thing to do is in these situations but I'm curious what will hold up in court. I'm not asking because I've been in an accident, just curious.

    1) Let's say Car A is traveling north on the main road that has 2 lanes in each direction. Another Car B is entering the main road and is also going north. There may or may not be an acceleration lane on the main road. If Car A is in the left hand lane and then changes to the right hand lane as Car B enters the main road and there is a collision, who is at fault?

    2) There is a 1 lane road with a separate turnout lane to turn right. The turnout lane is separated from the main road first by a dashed white line then a solid white line as it approaches the intersection. Car A is in the main road and traveling straight. Car B is in the turnout lane. Car B re-enters the main road while the line is still dashed and collides with the front, right portion of Car A. Who is at fault? [I think this is more cut and dry]
    Last edited by atgcpaul; 12-04-2014, 11:36 PM.
  • Black wallnut
    cycling to health
    • Jan 2003
    • 4715
    • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
    • BT3k 1999

    #2
    #1 both at fault, merging traffic and changing lanes are equal.

    #2 B is a at fault.

    Vehicles moving forward in the same lane have a reasonable expectation to be able to continue to do so, others need to yield to them.

    Or such is the "rules of the road" in Washington. Years ago fwiw I had to take a defensive driving course as part of my employment and right of way was part of that class. The instructor asked a question about right of way in an intersection and I gave an answer. He then said that it was the right answer only because he knew I was within the last month been "employed" in law enforcement, who just happen to be the only people enabled to make right of way judgments. Proper safe driving is to yield the right of way every time to avoid a collision. Furthermore right of way rules or laws may be different in other jurisdictions...... so ymmv and none of my post should be construed as legal advice......
    Donate to my Tour de Cure


    marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

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    Comment

    • tfischer
      Veteran Member
      • Jul 2003
      • 2343
      • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
      • BT3100

      #3
      Originally posted by atgcpaul
      1) Let's say Car A is traveling north on the main road that has 2 lanes in each direction. Another Car B is entering the main road and is also going north. There may or may not be an acceleration lane on the main road. If Car A is in the left hand lane and then changes to the right hand lane as Car B enters the main road and there is a collision, who is at fault?
      The merging car has to yield to traffic on the main road. The Minnesota drivers manual says that you should NOT slow down to let the car in (this impedes the flow of traffic on the freeway), but if possible you should move to another (left) lane.

      Car A would only be partially at fault if they were doing something else wrong, such as excessive speed or distracted driving.

      Originally posted by atgcpaul
      2) There is a 1 lane road with a separate turnout lane to turn right. The turnout lane is separated from the main road first by a dashed white line then a solid white line as it approaches the intersection. Car A is in the main road and traveling straight. Car B is in the turnout lane. Car B re-enters the main road while the line is still dashed and collides with the front, right portion of Car B. Who is at fault? [I think this is more cut and dry]
      Probably combined fault. Car B did not make a safe lane change, but Car A did not maintain control of their vehicle. If Car A could prove there was no possible way to avoid the accident, then it's likely Car B's fault totally.

      Comment

      • leehljp
        Just me
        • Dec 2002
        • 8429
        • Tunica, MS
        • BT3000/3100

        #4
        Not getting into the legality portion, I tend to go with the defensive driving philosophy from the get go.

        I have come to the point that I do not expect people to follow the rules and I drive in a manner as to prevent them from hitting me. This includes being overly on the curteous side and letting them in, flashing my lights to let them know that I see them and let them in while at the same time slowing down enough to let them know I intend to let them in. This does not apply if I have a line of cars close behind me. I will do what I can to let them in without dangering another vehicle behind or beside me.

        I say this because what I tend to see overall in driving in city traffic is a mindset that says "This is my spot". The rule of thumb is even if there is decent enough space for a person to enter, most people will speed up to prevent that from happening. I see this all the time. Plum rude attitude.

        Why do drivers have to be so rude? While Japanese do have their rude drivers, they are far and few between. Overall they are polite and if you are willing to take a chance and enter a crowded lane, they will back off and let you. Very polite. "This road is ours, not MINE" attitude.
        Hank Lee

        Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

        Comment

        • tfischer
          Veteran Member
          • Jul 2003
          • 2343
          • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
          • BT3100

          #5
          Originally posted by leehljp
          Not getting into the legality portion, I tend to go with the defensive driving philosophy from the get go.

          I have come to the point that I do not expect people to follow the rules and I drive in a manner as to prevent them from hitting me. This includes being overly on the curteous side and letting them in, flashing my lights to let them know that I see them and let them in while at the same time slowing down enough to let them know I intend to let them in. This does not apply if I have a line of cars close behind me. I will do what I can to let them in without dangering another vehicle behind or beside me.

          I say this because what I tend to see overall in driving in city traffic is a mindset that says "This is my spot". The rule of thumb is even if there is decent enough space for a person to enter, most people will speed up to prevent that from happening. I see this all the time. Plum rude attitude.

          Why do drivers have to be so rude? While Japanese do have their rude drivers, they are far and few between. Overall they are polite and if you are willing to take a chance and enter a crowded lane, they will back off and let you. Very polite. "This road is ours, not MINE" attitude.
          I agree. In cases such as a crowded parking lot, if people just alternate, everyone moves and everyone gets home. I can't stand it when people refuse to let others in, OR they let the entire line in.

          Comment

          • Cochese
            Veteran Member
            • Jun 2010
            • 1988

            #6
            A lot of that comes from the people who will get in lanes they know will end just to try and jump a handful of people instead of waiting their turn.

            Do I not let those people in? **** right.
            I have a little blog about my shop

            Comment

            • TB Roye
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2004
              • 2969
              • Sacramento, CA, USA.
              • BT3100

              #7
              Out here in California it has gotten real bad. Blowing red light constantly. Not stopping on red light before turning right, been hit head on while making U turn because of that, Drive 76 Ford F250 when a Honda did that poor Honda. been rear end twice by distracted drivers. Crowding in lis a whole another ball game. Road Rage is common in my area. New immigrants both legal and illegal are another big problem. To easy to drivers license's out here. Not a political statement just the facts of life.

              Comment

              • atgcpaul
                Veteran Member
                • Aug 2003
                • 4055
                • Maryland
                • Grizzly 1023SLX

                #8
                Originally posted by Cochese
                A lot of that comes from the people who will get in lanes they know will end just to try and jump a handful of people instead of waiting their turn.

                Do I not let those people in? **** right.
                This irks me to no end--people who can't wait their turn. I only need to take surface streets to work but one of the roads has a major freeway on ramp. The line to get on can be nearly 50 cars deep. There's always a few people who scoot in right before it's too late. Hate that.

                Comment

                • cwsmith
                  Veteran Member
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 2737
                  • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                  • BT3100-1

                  #9
                  Let's face it, there are an abundance of self-centered drivers out there. When I was a fairly new driver in my late teens and early twenties, I must admit that I was, at times, one of those. I had a new VW 'Beetle' and too often darted through traffic with little regard to simple manners.

                  I'm happy to admit that when got married, that all seemed to change... perhaps it was simply facing the fact that other people matter and that overly aggressive driving makes little sense with regard to getting from point A to point B.

                  I still drive "aggressively", but it is more in the way of defense, than it is in trying to make time. One has got to keep their eyes and ears open every single moment. (I haven't had a violation in more than thirty years with my last speeding ticket being in 1976... 65 in a 55 zone. [My last accident was in 1969, when a car pulled into the side of me at a traffic light]). Note that I don't play the radio, eat, drink, or converse when I'm in traffic.

                  To the question at hand, the main traffic flow has the right of way in most all cases that I know of. However, a driver should be well aware of upcoming merging lanes, and a safe/courteous driver will move into a left lane (if traffic permits) to allow for merging drivers to enter the traffic flow safely and without challenge. (I have seen far too many accidents because drivers in a merging lane have had to stop and then get rear-ended by drivers trying turning their heads to observe the main flow of traffic!)

                  Not too long ago I read a post on one of the forums where the author 'got a kick' out of paralleling vehicles in the merge lane, until they ran out of space. Thankfully most of the respondents took him to task for this practice.

                  We have one particularly nasty highway in our area, where there are three significantly merging entries into the traffic flow. Rarely do people move to left lane, and worse are those who come flying up the merge ramp, and then cut across all three lanes to get to the extreme left passing lane. I drive this particular challenge several times a week, and it is rarely a calm exercise.

                  CWS
                  Think it Through Before You Do!

                  Comment

                  • capncarl
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 3564
                    • Leesburg Georgia USA
                    • SawStop CTS

                    #10
                    I use to get a chuckle out of the office staff at the Marine base going and coming to work on our local restricted access 4 lane freeway, I believe they thought it was the Daytona race track. I know for a fact that 95% of these drivers are not in that big of a hurry to get to work, or have anything important to do when they get there, you couldn't tell it by watching them drive though. I drive a Mazda Miata and in this kind of traffic you had better stay in front of the pack and keep where they can see you or you WILL get run over. I typically cruised 80-85 in a 65 speed limit just to be safe. Where are the traffic problems police? Rarely see one on this road, they probably give up on tickets because this crowd would just get someone to have it swept under the rug. One particular young red head lady would nearly run over me or push me off the road every day on the way home in her Jeep. A CJ class jeep has no business doing doing 80 mph on a public highway. I decided one day that enough was enough and she was not getting around me, I'd sometimes have to go nearly 100 to keep her behind me! That went on for several weeks before she came in my office and asked if I had a problem with her driving and would not let her pass me! I said, yes mam, you drive like and idiot and I want you behind me. They later promoted her to head of risk management. Go figure.
                    capncarl

                    Comment

                    • jdon
                      Established Member
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 401
                      • Snoqualmie, Wash.
                      • BT3100

                      #11
                      A lot of that comes from the people who will get in lanes they know will end just to try and jump a handful of people instead of waiting their turn.

                      Do I not let those people in? **** right.
                      There's a subset of the population for whom "lane ends 1000 feet" is a personal invitation to race to the end of that lane. After some near collisions with them trying to merge their fenders into mine, I've quit refusing to let them in. I figure they're incorrigible and ineducable, and take a bit of solace in being thankful I don't have to live with them.

                      Comment

                      • gerti
                        Veteran Member
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 2233
                        • Minnetonka, MN, USA.
                        • BT3100 "Frankensaw"

                        #12
                        Originally posted by atgcpaul
                        Car B re-enters the main road while the line is still dashed and collides with the front, right portion of Car B. Who is at fault? [I think this is more cut and dry]
                        Car B hits itself? Must be catholic.

                        Comment

                        • atgcpaul
                          Veteran Member
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 4055
                          • Maryland
                          • Grizzly 1023SLX

                          #13
                          Originally posted by gerti
                          Car B hits itself? Must be catholic.
                          Woops. Fixed in the first post

                          Comment

                          • atgcpaul
                            Veteran Member
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 4055
                            • Maryland
                            • Grizzly 1023SLX

                            #14
                            OK, here's another one. 4 way stop signs.

                            I work across the street from one of the busiest hospitals in the state. The ER entrance is one of the arms of a 4 way stop. I seem to remember from driver's end that if one of the cross streets is not the major thoroughfare, then when 2 cars meet at that intersection, the car on the major road has the right of way. Am I remembering that right? So how do you determine which is the major road? As you can imagine, there's a lot of confusion at this intersection.

                            I also seem to remember that if two cars reach the stop sign at the same time perpendicular to each other and neither road is the primary road, then the rightmost car (right of way) gets priority. I don't remembef if the caveat to that was that both cars need to moving forward and not turning. If either car is turning, then the car going straight gets the right of way. Is this how you learned it?

                            And what if 4 cars reach the intersection at 4 different but close times? Obviously the first car gets priority while the other three come to a stop. Do they all proceed in the order they arrive or do they proceed with the first car to the right of the original first car--like in board games?

                            Comment

                            • LinuxRandal
                              Veteran Member
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 4889
                              • Independence, MO, USA.
                              • bt3100

                              #15
                              When I first got my license, I remember turning right onto a two lane road, where the cross traffic was also turning left onto that same two lane road, from a one lane road (with a green arrow). The driving manual said that they were to turn in the inner lane and merge to the outer lane and as I was stopped and there was no one in the outer connect lane I could turn into it.
                              Timing was close and one of those fast cars almost nailed my rear bumper and blared his horn.
                              While I was technically correct, what is a ticketable offense is also Failure to Yield. That takes precedent over the other rules, from what I have learned. (lawyers in court, get to fight over the rest, at our expense)
                              She couldn't tell the difference between the escape pod, and the bathroom. We had to go back for her.........................Twice.

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