The Price of Precision

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  • durango dude
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 934
    • a thousand or so feet above insanity
    • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

    The Price of Precision

    Just received a promo from Woodcraft ----- marketing the special
    setup blocks ----- holy smokes!

    Whether you're a seasoned artisan or a novice enthusiast, shop Woodcraft for expert advice, unbeatable prices, superior brands, and a woodworking experience like no other. Explore our vast selection of premium wood, tools, and accessories, meticulously curated to fuel your passion for creating timeless pieces.


    There's some fairly reasonable alternatives out there:

    a) Veritas makes some setup blocks:

    Shop Woodworking Hand & Power Tools Collection on Lee Valley. Browse our selection of Reliable Tools for any Woodworking project.



    b) Kreg makes some setup bars that I own

    Shop Woodworking Hand & Power Tools Collection on Lee Valley. Browse our selection of Reliable Tools for any Woodworking project.


    That said - I have a commentary ----
    Watch a video of Sam Maloof cutting something, some time.
    You'll notice something ----- I've never seen him measure anything!

    Where's this leave me?

    I'm not spending $400 to measure with a micrometer - when I cut with a sledgehammer.
  • Black wallnut
    cycling to health
    • Jan 2003
    • 4715
    • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
    • BT3k 1999

    #2


    For reference. I'm sure there are less expensive more accurate options available.
    Donate to my Tour de Cure


    marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

    Head servant of the forum

    ©

    Comment

    • Cochese
      Veteran Member
      • Jun 2010
      • 1988

      #3
      Even the guys on FOG are complaining about the price. That's when you know it's too much.
      I have a little blog about my shop

      Comment

      • poolhound
        Veteran Member
        • Mar 2006
        • 3195
        • Phoenix, AZ
        • BT3100

        #4
        They are a lovely shade of red!
        Jon

        Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
        ________________________________

        We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
        techzibits.com

        Comment

        • durango dude
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 934
          • a thousand or so feet above insanity
          • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

          #5
          Here's precision layout for you. Watch him at around 0:19 draw a line..........

          The furniture of midcentury craftsman Sam Maloof (1916-2009) and the art made by 35 members of his circle of friends are explored in a groundbreaking exhibit...

          Comment

          • lrr
            Established Member
            • Apr 2006
            • 380
            • Fort Collins, Colorado
            • Ryobi BT-3100

            #6
            Woodpeckers must count on the short deadline for ordering those setup bars to get most folks to spend so much for them.

            I do like Woodpeckers stuff and have 3 of their rules of varying lengths, and I bought one of their metric rules because one project I did had so many offsets it was simpler to use metric instead of adding and subtracting fractions. But I would have never bought them if they were "One Time Tools", since I've bought them over time. I plan to add more in longer lengths and will likely buy both Imperial and metric, but if I had to buy everything I thought I'd want all by a looming deadline, I would have passed on them.

            There are older One Time Tools I want and I'm on their mailing list if these items ever return. I've been waiting a couple years now and figure it will never happen. Kind of irritating ... I'm 62 and that clock is ticking!
            Lee

            Comment

            • LCHIEN
              Internet Fact Checker
              • Dec 2002
              • 20920
              • Katy, TX, USA.
              • BT3000 vintage 1999

              #7
              I don't think I need a complete set of setup bars, I find the fractional 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, and 1/2" enough for offsetting things from a fence or whatever.

              And if you want to be cheap then just use a drill bit set.
              Or buy some aluminum square bar stock at the local hardware store for about a buck a foot. and then you can cut off 2" pieces and make six sets. These are quite accurate.

              If you have a transfer punch set, that works too, just be advised that they are 3-5 thousands undersized to be able to slip in a hole of the size they are marked.

              I like measuring gizmos and tools but I don't really have a desire for one of the sets being mentioned. I also have one of the commercial setup bar sets from Rockler, I think, brass in a nice plastic case, about $19 bucks. with the standard 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, and 1/2" set. You can stack them for in-between sizes.
              Loring in Katy, TX USA
              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

              Comment

              • jussi
                Veteran Member
                • Jan 2007
                • 2162

                #8
                I have a few of woodpeckers one time tool but I'll be staying away from this one. I'm very happy with the veritas set up blocks.
                I reject your reality and substitute my own.

                Comment

                • Condoman44
                  Established Member
                  • Nov 2013
                  • 178
                  • CT near Norwich
                  • Ryobi BT3000

                  #9
                  Same for me in that these are just to spendy and I have not had need for anything like this in the past.

                  Comment

                  • All Thumbs
                    Established Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 322
                    • Penn Hills, PA
                    • BT3K/Saw-Stop

                    #10
                    .001" precision isn't actually very precise.

                    When working metals things are typically held to the "tenths" or 1/10000 or .0001".

                    Comment

                    • leehljp
                      Just me
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 8429
                      • Tunica, MS
                      • BT3000/3100

                      #11
                      Originally posted by All Thumbs
                      .001" precision isn't actually very precise.

                      When working metals things are typically held to the "tenths" or 1/10000 or .0001".
                      Agreed - on metal or cast items. But very good on wood. Wood cannot be expected to be operated with the tolerances of metal.

                      There is a thread here some 10+ years ago in which I had a pict of a Japanese friends' wood shavings. (The pict is now gone). The shavings were so thin that you could easily read magazine print through the ribbon.

                      I commented on that to Maeno and took some shavings home to make that picture. Maeno said, (in Japanese of course) "Oh, that plane wasn't as sharp as it could be. I will call you to come back when I sharpen it."

                      A few weeks later, he called and I went back to his house. Bear in mind that Japanese planes are not adjusted by a knob or lever, but by tapping the sides or ends of the block lightly with a hammer, causing minute movements of the cutter - and eyeballing the results.

                      Well, Maeno did that with me watching. Then he said (had to repeat a couple of times for me to understand) "This piece of planed wood has been setting out for a couple of days. After a piece of wood is planed and is flat, humidity changes over a couple of days will raise the soft vs hard of the grain. What once was flat will now be ridges between the two." With that, he planed away the raised ridge of the soft wood and little strings/strands came off. That had to be close to 1/5000 of an inch or even up to 1/10000 as you mentioned.

                      He eyeballed the settings and came up with that, no trial and error!
                      Last edited by leehljp; 11-14-2014, 12:36 PM.
                      Hank Lee

                      Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                      Comment

                      • tfischer
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 2343
                        • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        LOL it's like golf clubs... I could buy a $20,000 set of golf clubs but I"m still going to suck. I could buy these setup blocks and I'm not going to be much more accurate than I am now.

                        Someone here used to have a signature, something to the effect of "Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, cut it with an axe" lol

                        Comment

                        • trungdok
                          Established Member
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 235
                          • MA

                          #13
                          Originally posted by leehljp
                          ....
                          Well, Maeno did that with me watching. Then he said (had to repeat a couple of times for me to understand) "This piece of planed wood has been setting out for a couple of days. After a piece of wood is planed and is flat, humidity changes over a couple of days will raise the soft vs hard of the grain. What once was flat will now be ridges between the two." With that, he planed away the raised ridge of the soft wood and little strings/strands came off. That had to be close to 1/5000 of an inch or even up to 1/10000 as you mentioned.

                          He eyeballed the settings and came up with that, no trial and error!
                          And that's when I would pick my jaw off the ground

                          Comment

                          • Bill in Buena Park
                            Veteran Member
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 1865
                            • Buena Park, CA
                            • CM 21829

                            #14
                            Originally posted by All Thumbs
                            .001" precision isn't actually very precise.

                            When working metals things are typically held to the "tenths" or 1/10000 or .0001".
                            For wood, I'll settle for 1/32 inch accuracy, and celebrate 1/64. My digital/fractional caliper has 1/128 setting, which is ~0.008 inch. (This is also a point of amusement, since the metric setting has 0.01mm increments, which is ~0.0004 inch).

                            So IMO this set is overkill for wood. Hard to think of a circumstance where using drill bits, a caliper or one of these wouldn't produce the same results more economically. Of course, you have to buy batteries, but you can probably get a lifetime supply for the difference in price.
                            Bill in Buena Park

                            Comment

                            • cwsmith
                              Veteran Member
                              • Dec 2005
                              • 2737
                              • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                              • BT3100-1

                              #15
                              I agree... I think we often don't see the material for what it is. Many of us get the idea that 'machine-shop' precision is essential to good workmanship with woodworking.

                              Perhaps, some of us can reach that kind of precision (+/- 0.001), and if so I certainly salute you; but for most of us, I think, just reaching dimensions to the "64th" or maybe even "128th" of an inch is a worthy achievement.

                              The Woodcraft price does seem to be quite excessive, IMHO, but then knowing how many of us are, I am sure they're marketing dept knows full well that there will be a number of buyers.

                              For me, there are a number of 'precision' items that I've used, like the Rockler' brass set-up bars I use for the router table. I also have a set of 'parallel bars' and a 'transfer punch' set which I got from HF. (I believe the latter was a recommendation by one of the predominant members here on the forum, earlier this year.

                              The question of course is setting you own need for 'precision', while keeping in mind how the materials you're working are going to change over time because of environmental conditions, like humidity, temperature, etc.

                              CWS
                              Think it Through Before You Do!

                              Comment

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