Stair advice needed

[JeffG78]

Hey gang, I have gutted and remodelled my sun room and I'm struggling to come up with a stair layout that makes sense.

Here's a little background. The house is a 50's bungalow and the 20'x10' sun room is slab on grade 27-1/2" lower than the house and there is a 60" wide sliding glass door that leads into the room. The original stair design had a giant, ugly landing the full width of the glass door and the steps went down along the wall. That looked terrible because the steps took up way too much of the room, so I tore out the steps and landing and plan to have a simple straight set of steps that are not the full width of the glass door.

The door opening is only anout 28" and I'd like to keep the steps narrow to maximize room space, but from what I have found online, the minimum stair width is 32". I will also need a railing on one side since there are more than three risers. I'm debating whether to go with treads that overhang the stringers, or if I should build it with sides so the treads butt up to the sides.

Since the floor is concrete and the wall is brick with only 3/4" sleepers behind the new drywall, I need to make sure I attach the balusters into the stringer to get enough strength.

Here is the old landing that eats up a bunch of space


And here it is ready for new steps.


And here is my terrible attempt at using Paint to show the new steps


So, should I use treads that overhang the sides like this?


Or should they be within the sides like this?


I wanted to reuse the old oak treads, but they are only about 28" wide. Even though the doorway is only 28" and wider treads might look a bit too wide, I don't want to run into code issues with stairs that are too narrow since the house is going on the market as soon as I complete the sun room. I ran the old oak through my planer and they came out looking great. If I make the stairs 32", I'll have to buy new oak treads. The room's floor will be tile, so the treads will be oak.

Any ideas of what would look best? I plan to finish the sides of the stairway in either drywall or painted beadboard and I'm leaning towards simple balusters and wrought iron spindles to minimize the railing in the room. Should I really make the steps wider than the door? For the last 50+ years, they have been narrower. I doubt anybody would ever question the width.

[capncarl]

My suggestion, have the steps come up from the opposite direction as in the photo with fido in it. That allows a longer landing that would be in front of the fixed glass door. A landing on the first step that would go to the back wall and allow a side entry. This would use up the dead space that will be behind the steps and not good for anything but clutter.

[All Thumbs]

I wanted to reuse the old oak treads, but they are only about 28" wide. Even though the doorway is only 28" and wider treads might look a bit too wide, I don't want to run into code issues with stairs that are too narrow since the house is going on the market as soon as I complete the sun room.

Forget the stairs being too narrow, you can't have a half a patio door that opens up to a 27-1/2" fall. Maybe nobody will say anything, but...

[JeffG78]

I briefly thought about that capncarl, but the ceiling in the room is rather strange too and when you walk out onto the landing, you are looking at the face of a truss. By eliminating the landing, it will give the room a much more open feel since you step down under the ceiling rather than walking out to it if that makes any sense. I briefly considered reworking the roof framing, but it would have meant replacing all the trusses, sheeting, and shingles. I left the goofy ceiling.




This is what it looks like standing on the landing

[JeffG78]

Forget the stairs being too narrow, you can't have a half a patio door that opens up to a 27-1/2" fall. Maybe nobody will say anything, but...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. There will be stairs with a handrail. The 60" door only opens less than 26", so making the stairs wide means that they will extend well past the usable door opening. I could make the stairs 60" wide, but that doesn't make sense to me since half the stairway would lead to a fixed panel.

[All Thumbs]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. There will be stairs with a handrail. The 60" door only opens less than 26", so making the stairs wide means that they will extend well past the usable door opening. I could make the stairs 60" wide, but that doesn't make sense to me since half the stairway would lead to a fixed panel.

I thought you had two sliding panels. Carry on.

[jdon]

I think a major factor is that you'll soon put your house on the market, so let me put on my pretend potential homebuyer hat.

First, a typical buyer will more likely be swayed by appearances than by practicalities. Looking out from the main house, through the sliding door into this inviting (I assume) sun room, I think something like the original stairway is preferable. Your eyes look out through both panels, and a missing platform outside the fixed panel would psychologically give an impression of possibly falling off, or that something is missing, even if it makes no sense intellectually. Rather, a full width landing fills the view through both door panels, giving kind of a balcony image. Your Paint drawing plan seems, well, utilitarian- more like going into a basement or garage, rather than into extended living space.

Also, many might find opening or closing the door from the outside difficult or disquieting if there's not enough room for adequate lateral leverage. There is the tendency to step toward the fixed panel side to make it easier to push or pull parallel to the door track.

One way to minimize loss of usable space might be to have the steps on the far side of the landing (to the right, as seen from the sun room). I can't tell whether the door is centered on the wall. Also, you could justify having a wide platform by building some storage cabinets or shelves beneath.

Finally, from a "curb appeal" stance, when showing the house you could put a big potted plant on the side of the platform with the fixed panel.

Just my .02. It's hard trying to figure out what a hypothetical future homeowner sees as important. Good luck with the project and the sale.

[JoeyGee]

I agree with JDon. To me, the original stairs don't look too bad. It's tough to see just how much space the whole landing and stairs take up, but just based on what you have said and shown, the original looks like the best option.

Good luck with the project however you proceed.

[JeffG78]

The pictures don't show how narrow the room is. There was virtually no room for furniture the way it was and it felt really strange walking out onto the landing looking at the face of a wall. With the original landing in place, both the left and right sides were useless nooks. From the front of the landing to the outside wall opposite the sliding door, there is only 6 feet, so the usable space needs to be to the left and right of the door which is currently occupied by the stairs. Straight stairs land almost the same distance into the room as the width of the landing, but the width is reduced from 9 feet to less than 3 feet. With a few temporary steps in place as a test, you step down quickly and the strange low ceiling is no longer as noticable. I've been looking at the landing for 11 years and ditching it is the only option. The original plan was to tear the whole room off and build a new one with a floor at house level and a better floor plan, but when we decided to move, I was forced to make the best of a bad situation. I tore off the panelling, fixed lots of rotten framing, replaced the insulation and all of the windows. The room is now cozy and clean with new windows, thick insulation and new drywall. I just need to figure the stairs out so I can hang the last of the drywall and start mudding.

[JeffG78]

BTW, I really appreciate all the feedback. Without seeing the room in person makes it tough to get a feel for what is going on.

I bought the house 11 years ago as a forclosure dump that was in terrible condition. Since then, I have reworked everything from front to back, and top to bottom. This is the last room left to finish and like I said in the post above, I never planned to keep the room. I'm simply trying to make it a nice three season room that adds value rather than the leaky eyesore that I have looked at since 2003.

[capncarl]

You really must have a landing in front of a door with steps, someone will kill theirselves trying to enter with an arm load of groceries.

Suggestion #2: swap the 2 sliding doors. Use the original step plan and have the landing in front of the fixed door (where the sliding door was). Do a proper job of building and finishing it and the new owners will be proud. Sometimes there is nothing you can do with a small room to fix problems like this.

[JimD]

I think I would forget the landing and save the space. Just have 3 steps then a step up into the main level. You'll need handrails on both sides but that isn't hard. You could also locate the landing down a step to save space if you really want one. It is normal for an outside door to step up through the door off a landing lower than the inside floor.

[capncarl]

JimD, I agree, a step out of a door is quite common. That puts the plan back to jeffg78 rendering. That might be the best answer.

[JeffG78]

I went to HD today to get wood for the stringers and to see what they had for oak treads. Yuk! The 36" treads were $25 each and were made up of about five 2" wide oak strips. They were warped, checked, and cheap looking. It's the reason I was hoping I could reuse my treads. Mine are way thicker and are a single slab of oak. Too bad they are only 28" long.

Is Lowe's or Menards any better, or should I just go find a lumber yard that sells better quality? My local lumber yard is only open 8-5 M-F so shopping there isn't very convienient.

[Pappy]

Since it is going on the market and will have to pass code, check with the local inspector on the minimum tread width. 28" setting them inside might be enough. With them overhanging, deducting space for railing, you are going to have about a 24" opening.

I have to agree with everyone else. Both for visual appeal and safety you need the landing across the entire opening but you may be able to make it narrower than it was, maybe the width of 2 stair treads. Add your railing on both sides of the steps and around the extra landing area. It will give you a more finished look and create a small nook for a planter or a small accent piece like a bistro chair.