BT3x00 belt replacement..

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  • mmcmac
    Forum Newbie
    • Nov 2014
    • 53

    BT3x00 belt replacement..

    This post moved from here, given that thread was closed..

    Originally posted by Black wallnut
    The belts that are used in the BTx saws are short.
    Understood, that's the constraint I'm attempting to navigate around here.

    There is not room for a longer belt and idler pulley without totally re-engineering the saw.
    I wasn't suggesting a substantially longer belt, however if the same profile belt a few mm longer in length was more commonly available, that would be one alternate possibility and enable other improvements as below.

    Why would someone bother?
    Price an availability -- IMHO the currently available Bando 106H belts are excessively priced, assuming that's what you're actually buying. I've seen some substitute belts attempting to be sold for bt3k saws which were a simple flat rubber belt of the same length but differing form factor relative to a Bando polyurethane H profile belt.

    Ease of belt replacement -- adding a simple belt idler/tensioner would make belt changes simpler, remove the assumption of proper tension being achieved by the belt precision alone, and offer far better impact resistance of the belt in blade stall scenarios. This is prefaced on the assumption a longer belt (eg 112H or equivalent) being available.

    Another possibility would be to machine an arbor/motor pully set for a more common belt profile, independent of whether an idler was used.
  • tfischer
    Veteran Member
    • Jul 2003
    • 2343
    • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
    • BT3100

    #2
    I had to replace my motor this past year and I have to say I was shocked how difficult it is to replace belts on this saw. Essentially it was just as easy (poor choice of words) to replace the motor as the belt. And by "easy" I mean "you have to disassemble about 90% of the saw"). I even ended up having to drill out a screw that was ridiculously tight.

    It's sad to say but when I finally break a belt (I'm still using my original ones even with the replacement motor) or something else major happens, it's most likely going to spell the end of my BT3100 'career'. I've loved the saw (even our kitchen remodeling contractor and his subs were impressed with it last year) but it's just getting too much of a pain (and expense) to find parts, etc. I spent over $100 for a used motor which as far as I know could burn out in a week... new motors cost as much as I paid for the whole saw 10 years ago.
    Last edited by tfischer; 11-17-2014, 12:15 PM.

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    • mmcmac
      Forum Newbie
      • Nov 2014
      • 53

      #3
      Originally posted by tfischer
      I had to replace my motor this past year and I have to say I was shocked how difficult it is to replace belts on this saw. Essentially it was just as easy (poor choice of words) to replace the motor as the belt. And by "easy" I mean "you have to disassemble about 90% of the saw").
      I'd assume a winding in your original motor gave up the ghost, requiring a new unit?

      Although I wouldn't be surprized if that motor had some commonality with other tools produced around the same point in time.

      It's sad to say but when I finally break a belt (I'm still using my original ones even with the replacement motor) or something else major happens, it's most likely going to spell the end of my BT3100 'career'.
      It seems truly unfortunate to cast off a bt3k as a disposable tool just because of price gouging on maintenance parts. I don't disagree with the economic reality in doing so, but I'd expect a more workable solution could be found.

      Paying $50 for a set of urethane belts seems to be the Achilles Heel here. AFAICT other likely part replacement prospects can be repaired, replaced, or machined as needed to keep the saw alive.

      Comment

      • Black wallnut
        cycling to health
        • Jan 2003
        • 4715
        • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
        • BT3k 1999

        #4
        Originally posted by mmcmac
        Although I wouldn't be surprized if that motor had some commonality with other tools produced around the same point in time.





        Paying $50 for a set of urethane belts seems to be the Achilles Heel here. AFAICT other likely part replacement prospects can be repaired, replaced, or machined as needed to keep the saw alive.
        Since the first motor lost it's smoke form a BT3K folks have looked for a suitable replacement outside of direct replacement with an OEM motor and none have been found.

        One other commonly needed replacement part that is getting hard to find are the BT3K specific shims. Folks could bend their own but I know of no one that has done so yet. Most tool users do not machine their own replacement parts. We live in a disposable society.
        Donate to my Tour de Cure


        marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

        Head servant of the forum

        ©

        Comment

        • mmcmac
          Forum Newbie
          • Nov 2014
          • 53

          #5
          Originally posted by Black wallnut
          Since the first motor lost it's smoke form a BT3K folks have looked for a suitable replacement outside of direct replacement with an OEM motor and none have been found.
          That's unfortunate. When I'd eyeballed the bt3000 motor it looked similar to that in my Ryobi ts-251u chop saw which has been going strong for the past 24 years. While the mounting flange for a donor motor may be straightforward to adapt, motors from chop saws, large grinders, tile saws, etc.. probably have the output end of the armature cut as a helical gear. Where the bt3k motor has a conventional shaft to accommodate pulley mounting.

          One other commonly needed replacement part that is getting hard to find are the BT3K specific shims. Folks could bend their own but I know of no one that has done so yet.
          In machine tool lingo those Ryobi dubbed shims are "gibs" and the business ends of the locker bracket and guide holder are "ways". It is odd to find aluminum anywhere in a sliding way surface, given an aluminum surface is in reality aluminum oxide as found in sandpaper. But empirically the intervening stainless steel gibs along with whatever divine lubrication went into that design makes it work better than it should in theory.

          The SS gibs on my saw look ok, although it appears one of the ears has gone missing. I'm not too concerned about replacing it though when I have the works disassembled I may cement it to the guide holder which is where it really wants to be. I tossed around the possibility of replacing the gibs/shims with acetal (delrin) versions, but that may be overkill given the motor ways are unlikely to experience enough travel to make a difference.

          Most tool users do not machine their own replacement parts. We live in a disposable society.
          I suppose I subscribe to the unreasonable man philosophy.

          Comment

          • JoeyGee
            Veteran Member
            • Nov 2005
            • 1509
            • Sylvania, OH, USA.
            • BT3100-1

            #6
            I really like my BT3100, but when parts start going out on it, I'm just going to bite the bullet and upgrade. Yes, I hate to contribute to the disposable society, but I don't want to be nickel and dimed maintaining it.

            Maybe I'll just go pull the belts off it now, sell them on eBay and buy a new saw, lol.
            Joe

            Comment

            • lrr
              Established Member
              • Apr 2006
              • 380
              • Fort Collins, Colorado
              • Ryobi BT-3100

              #7
              Originally posted by JoeyGee
              I really like my BT3100, but when parts start going out on it, I'm just going to bite the bullet and upgrade. Yes, I hate to contribute to the disposable society, but I don't want to be nickel and dimed maintaining it.

              Maybe I'll just go pull the belts off it now, sell them on eBay and buy a new saw, lol.
              I'm kinda thinking the same thing (parting it out at some point). I bought a Festool track saw last year, which is simply amazing for breaking down plywood sheets, not to mention delivering absolutely beautiful finish cuts. It has taken away much of my need for a table saw, at least for now, as I am involved in making cabinets and shelves.

              I still think a SawStop is in my future, but putting a Forrest ripping blade on my BT-3100 has given it a new lease on life, and has kept it useful until I upgrade.
              Lee

              Comment

              • tfischer
                Veteran Member
                • Jul 2003
                • 2343
                • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
                • BT3100

                #8
                Originally posted by mmcmac
                I'd assume a winding in your original motor gave up the ghost, requiring a new unit?

                Although I wouldn't be surprized if that motor had some commonality with other tools produced around the same point in time.



                It seems truly unfortunate to cast off a bt3k as a disposable tool just because of price gouging on maintenance parts. I don't disagree with the economic reality in doing so, but I'd expect a more workable solution could be found..
                After disassembling the motor to do an autopsy on it, one of the little contacts on the commutator got raised up, causing it to be very noisy, smelly, and only get up to about half speed.

                I don't like being "disposable" either but Ryobi is forcing that hand by discontinuing parts at anywhere close to a reasonable price. Why would I pay $300+ for a motor when I had found a very nice, mint condition Ridgid cast iron saw on Craigslist for $299? Among other things, it would have given me much more table capacity, and also Ridgid still has parts available (and they're a lot more universal in any case). I just about pulled the trigger on that over my $100 used motor. But I have enough custom jigs, etc (not to mention comfort level) with my BT3 that I decided to keep her going a little longer.

                But at some point you have to stop throwing good money after bad.

                Comment

                • Black wallnut
                  cycling to health
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 4715
                  • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
                  • BT3k 1999

                  #9
                  Originally posted by mmcmac



                  In machine tool lingo those Ryobi dubbed shims are "gibs" and the business ends of the locker bracket and guide holder are "ways". It is odd to find aluminum anywhere in a sliding way surface, given an aluminum surface is in reality aluminum oxide as found in sandpaper. But empirically the intervening stainless steel gibs along with whatever divine lubrication went into that design makes it work better than it should in theory.
                  Although the purpose of the shims is similar to that of gibs shims is a more proper term. Part names are important so that we all are talking about the same part. Ryobi used the name shim for good reason. In the updated BT3100 saw the shims are changed to a wavy profile with no option for adjustment. Why do you after 26 years or so since this saw was first introduced wish to change the names of the parts?
                  Donate to my Tour de Cure


                  marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

                  Head servant of the forum

                  ©

                  Comment

                  • mmcmac
                    Forum Newbie
                    • Nov 2014
                    • 53

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Black wallnut
                    Why do you after 26 years or so since this saw was first introduced wish to change the names of the parts?
                    Perhaps "bearing slide" might be more appropriate given its primary purpose appears to be avoiding aluminum-to-aluminum way contact. But I wasn't suggesting to change the name.

                    It is curious Ryobi didn't make the shims a bit heavier gauge to distribute set screw point loading over a wider aluminum way surface, or for that matter increase the number of set screws seating a given shim for the same reason.

                    Comment

                    • tfischer
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 2343
                      • Plymouth (Minneapolis), MN, USA.
                      • BT3100

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Black wallnut
                      Most tool users do not machine their own replacement parts. We live in a disposable society.
                      If I had that capability I'd consider it. But I don't own a machine shop, and hiring it out would not be financially prudent.

                      And sadly, our beloved saws are worth much more in pieces than they are as a whole.

                      Comment

                      • mmcmac
                        Forum Newbie
                        • Nov 2014
                        • 53

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Black wallnut
                        One other commonly needed replacement part that is getting hard to find are the BT3K specific shims. Folks could bend their own but I know of no one that has done so yet. Most tool users do not machine their own replacement parts.
                        I've since happened upon a parts bt3000 which has blade travel issues. So after pulling it apart I'd found the flat shims (#86) mic at 0.20mm and the "gibbed" shims (#3) at 0.21mm. Both likely are formed from 35 gauge tempered stainless steel sheet. The rear gibbed shim was nowhere to be found and probably wound up in the former owner's dust collection bag.

                        As the shims are stamped from sheet, the cut edges have the usual shear burr on one side. For the flat shim (#86) this burr was located in contact with its stationary way surface. However the angle shim (#3) was formed placing the burr into the locker bracket (#10) way rather than the guide holder (#80) stationary way. This will cause the work hardened burr to wear against the motion way surface, increasing drag on the shim. This likely contributed to the loss of the rear shim and the front shim being on the road to a similar fate.

                        As these are the factory shims, it appears beneficial for anyone pulling the guide holder to inspect the shims for burr orientation. If need be the burr can be gently knocked off with fine sand paper or a stone at a 45* angle. Somewhat ironic as the burr could be of benefit if the shim was formed such that the burr intentionally contacted the stationary way which would help keep it from wandering in the guide holder. That said a drop of adhesive on the guide holder in the center of the shim is probably a far more reliable means to keep it in place.
                        Last edited by mmcmac; 11-22-2014, 07:15 AM.

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