SawStop...

**JeffW** · 04-01-2003, 01:51 PM

Boy, I know that this will stir up a hornet's nest, but I would be in favor of requiring manufactures to OFFER this system or like system as an OPTION. I don't like the gov't tell us what to do, but if it were an option that a grown adult could make a decision about, then what's the harm????

It would not have bothered me to pay an extra 100-150 if it were available from Ryobi. I would still have the best table saw around !!

We are grown adults I think

He who dies with the most toys wins

**Sam Conder** · 04-01-2003, 01:52 PM

IMHO, it sounds like a good way to sell your product. If people want a "SawStop" enabled saw, let them CHOOSE to buy one.

That's my $0.02... (and probably worth less than that)

Sam Conder
http://www.bt3central.com

**Stytooner** · 04-01-2003, 02:16 PM

I want to know how many fingers they went through during testing.

Lee
http://www.leestyron.com

**Ryan F** · 04-01-2003, 02:33 PM

JeffW, you do not want to be required to buy sawstop, but you want the manufacture to be required to offer it? What if you were a manufacture of a table saw would you want some vender to come in and force their product down your throat? Saw stop cannot sell their product on their own because of cost so they will force us to buy it telling us it makes us safer. Poor Poor Poor way of doing things by saw stop. Not trying to start a fight just pointing out a fact.

You could make the decision to buy one of Saw Stops table saws that they are selling, but they do cost more alot more.

Ryan Flaherty
http://home.kc.rr.com/myworkshop/Workshop.html

**MikeC** · 04-01-2003, 04:04 PM

For my part, I sent them an email explaining that I think their using the gov't to sell their product while hiding behind some ethical curtain is reprehensible, and that I would never willingly buy anything from them; much less sign their petition. Don't know if that will elicit any response, but if it does, I'll post it here.

--
Just Mike. Neophyte woodworker and wannabe Renaissance man.

**JeffW** · 04-01-2003, 04:58 PM

Ryan, Manufactures are forced to include seat belts, safety glass and air bags etc. I understand that saws should not be compared to autos where the ability to impact many is greater rather than just myself.

That being said, I think that having the option to have a safety system (not just SawStop) might be a good idea.

I have no intention of buying a SawStop (I already have what I think is a good saw)and I do not like the idea of mandating a specic product. I do believe that they are going it it the wrong way.

Just an opinion. Nothing to fight over.....

He who dies with the most toys wins

**Thalermade** · 04-01-2003, 05:26 PM

It is a good idea. The saw companies are probably developing their own versions to save the 8% royalty. I can see the end to tablesaws smaller than 10 inch though.

Below are two passages from the petition I think are interesting.

<center>Availability of the SawStop Technology</center>
Dr. Gass, David A. Fanning and James David Fulmer, three of the petitioners, are members of a limited liability company called SD3, LLC, that owns patent rights related to the SawStop technology. SD3 will make the SawStop technology available for license at a rate of not more than 8% of the wholesale cost of a saw if this standard is adopted. If saw manufacturers license the SawStop technology, then those three petitioners will likely benefit financially from the adoption of this new standard. However, the proposed standard is performance based, and is worded broadly enough to allow any type of solution to the problem. The SawStop technology demonstrates only one way to meet the proposed standard. There may be other systems that could be used to satisfy the proposed standard.

<center>Cost to Implement the SawStop Technology</center>
Dr. Gass believes the SawStop technology can be implemented for less than an average cost increase of 25% per table saw, including any royalty.
That cost is likely to decrease as the technology matures.

**MikeC** · 04-01-2003, 05:50 PM

quote:Originally posted by Thalermade

It is a good idea. The saw companies are probably developing their own versions to save the 8% royalty.

I'd guess not, not until they're forced to, or there is a market demand for it. Given that SawStop is going this route to sell product, I'm also guessing the market demand isn't there yet. At their pricepoint, anyway.

And has anyone read their patent? Is it so narrow as to even *allow* independent versions, or do they get a pound of flesh for every "electrically detected and activated saw blade stopping" system? (wording is mine there)

quote:
Below are two passages from the petition I think are interesting.

<center>Availability of the SawStop Technology</center>
Dr. Gass, David A. Fanning and James David Fulmer, three of the petitioners, are members of a limited liability company called SD3, LLC, that owns patent rights related to the SawStop technology. SD3 will make the SawStop technology available for license at a rate of not more than 8% of the wholesale cost of a saw if this standard is adopted. If saw manufacturers license the SawStop technology, then those three petitioners will likely benefit financially from the adoption of this new standard. However, the proposed standard is performance based, and is worded broadly enough to allow any type of solution to the problem. The SawStop technology demonstrates only one way to meet the proposed standard. There may be other systems that could be used to satisfy the proposed standard.

How generous. How about 0% if they're so concerned about safety and not profit?

Sorry, I have my cynic hat on today.

--
Just Mike. Neophyte woodworker and wannabe Renaissance man.

**Stytooner** · 04-01-2003, 05:56 PM

I know. Lets just all go to Hoes or Loan Depot and get them to cut all our pieces for use. Then all we'd have to worry about are those clamps. Just the other day, I had one of them clamp up real close to my finger. Phewww. That was a close one. The thing is that it just happens SOOO fast. [}

]

Lee
http://www.leestyron.com

**JeffW** · 04-01-2003, 06:49 PM

Lee,

Glad you warned me about the clamps. Almost had a nasty accident. The details are just too horrific.

Lets just say, Don't do glue ups and clamping while naked!!!! LOL

ps. I do get the lumber yard to do the cuts on full sheets of 4x8 since I do not feel comfortable doing them alone.... Just being careful....

He who dies with the most toys wins

**Ryan F** · 04-01-2003, 07:25 PM

JeffW, I understand what you mean and I don't want to fight, however in my mind you do have the option to buy a safety system whatever it may be by the features the saw offers. This is getting a little outside what you were talking about but the government could mandate that a table saw must weigh 300lb so as not to be a tipping hazard there are lots of things that ourselves and the manufactures are forced to do. As for seatbelts I think they are great but they should not be forced on anyone. I wear mine every time I get in the car but don't think I should be forced to. Again this is outside the realm of what you and I were talking about but just had to throw in my $.02. One of my favorite sayings is "don't give up the rights and freedoms that you have even if you don't want them, if you start to willingly give them up don't be surprised when they just start taking them away."

Ryan Flaherty
http://home.kc.rr.com/myworkshop/Workshop.html

**Paisano** · 04-01-2003, 07:39 PM

I think there is a different view of this from the manufacturers of the saws in that if there are no "safety" divices like this installed on their machines there is some "assumed personal responsibility" should you get your limb in the way of the saw. Once something like this device is installed it will open the manufacturers up to some huge liability should this device not work as specified and it is OEM'd to them for you to use right out of the box. I don't think for the manufacturers don't care about saving someone from a terrible accident, I just think they weighed the liability and blew them off based on "exosure" Just my humble opinion . . .

Thanks,
Paisano

**JeffW** · 04-01-2003, 07:59 PM

Ryan,

I don't think of a small disagreement as a fight. Gentleman have a right to have differing opinions. It is one of the things that makes a civilized country GREAT.

Nuff Said...

ps this forum also.....

He who dies with the most toys wins

**Craig** · 04-01-2003, 08:19 PM

Well... if it ain't one darn thing it's another!!! Being in the smarmy marketing end of the automobile business sorta qualifies me as an expert witness when I say WE DID NOT FIGHT FOR AIRBAGS OR BELTS !!! They were forced upon our industry. There was however alot of evidence that these two features could and would save lives. I can't remember the last time I heard of a death caused by table saw blade. (though I did see one at my grad-paps saw mill once, ughh!)

When this product first hit the market I saluted those clever fellows... when no one adopted their product I shrugged and said oh well another close miss... but to take a back-door approach to solve a marketing problem is something that eveeeen us car guys wouldn't sink to!

Besides, we did bring you safety glass windsheilds and cup holders... although we still feel a little bad about the AMC Pacer.

Later,
Craig

SawStop...

SawStop...

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