Shop wiring

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  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20997
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    Shop wiring

    I finally did something I've been putting off for years. Just because I was dreading it.
    Actually it was pretty simple for me, my garage shop has open studs and open rafters making it relatively easy. And the breaker box is on the inside of the garage, with open spaces in it.
    The original garage had one 20-A circuit with three wall outlets that also powered the garage door opener, the lights and two outdoor lights.
    When I worked in the shop I had to have the air compressor off lest it kick in while I was sawing. And the DC which drew 15A, every time I wanted to use the table saw I ran a 25-ft 12 ga. cord out the front door of my garage, across tha patio and into an outlet on the side of the house on a different circuit.
    So much for following the advice in the FAQ about plugging the BT3000 into a dedicated circuit.

    So over the past few weekends (actually one weekend and one evening) I ran FOUR more 20A circuits into the garage.

    One for the TS, overhead dropped down using one of those $10.49 extension cords with four outlets and green LEDs spaced every 8 feet.
    One for the DC (The DC is on a remote switch I posted about)
    One for the Air compressor and also feeds a nearby corner with a cordless phone and sprinkler control that both needed something better than a long extension cord thrown up over the rafters.
    One along the south wall for the air cleaner and a few tools there (DP, BS, Jointer etc).

    Wow, much better feeling now I don't have to worry about popping circuit breakers at any moment. Or Dragging the DC extension cord across the patio in a rainstorm. And stepping over extension cords.

    GE thin-profile 20A Breakers (that matched my breaker box) surprisingly were only $3.50 at HD, $3.72 at Lowes. Duplex Outlet boxes, outlet, and cover around 2 bucks per duplex outlet,
    the 12-2 NM wire was the most expensive part... about $32 for 50 feet boxes, I had part of one, ended up buying 2 more before I was done. I could have bought 250 feet for $68...

    Anyway, I did buy a short spade bit to add some holes but I ended up using holes already drilled by the original electrician. As recommended by code, wire should be supported every 4-something feet and within 12" of a wiring box. As I looked at the existing wiring, I realized that meant apparently supported either by a horizontal rafter underneath, a hole in a vertical stud or Horz header, or stapled to the framing.

    The breaker box had a place to write the breakers function along with a number. I had long ago written the numbers next to the breaker with a Sharpie. As I added breakers 25, 27, 29 and 31, I used my P-touch to make labels for each outlet box cover enumerating the corresponding breaker.

    While up in the rafters I tossed out several items that were cluttering up the overhead (i.e. the box my first CD-ROM drive came in... hmmm 1994?). Bit of a problem maneuvering the ladder around but not too bad. Sort of dictated the route for some of the wiring, though :-)
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-25-2008, 12:13 PM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions
  • JR
    The Full Monte
    • Feb 2004
    • 5633
    • Eugene, OR
    • BT3000

    #2
    Oh boy, am I envious! I can really relate to your issues regarding extension cords on the floor, and unplugging the compressor.

    I've managed to get my shop set up with a dedicated ckt for the BT3K, but everything else is a compromise. For instance the overhead air filter is on the light switch.

    Unfortunately, I just can't cram in any more breakers on my 100A panel.

    Congratulations on moving the ball forward. You're going to be a lot happier in your shop from now on.

    JR
    JR

    Comment

    • MikeMcCoy
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2004
      • 790
      • Moncks Corner, SC, USA.
      • Delta Contractor Saw

      #3
      Congrats on the improved wiring. It's like night and day going from not enought to adequate circuits. I just put in a sub panel a couple of months ago in my new home and got to use my drum sander for the first time in 5 months.

      Comment

      • poolhound
        Veteran Member
        • Mar 2006
        • 3195
        • Phoenix, AZ
        • BT3100

        #4
        Wow and we all thought the the most prolific poster would follow all the FAQs to the letter

        I am in exactly the same situation. I have one circuit that feeds my garage (shop), 2 outlets that have the socket mounted 6 outlet adaptors on. The garge opener and a fridge/freezer are always conected as is a radio and telephone. I know I need to do something about it as the breaker on this circuit is only 15A!!! I do pop it occasionaly, mainly when ripping thick stock. I am only using a shopvac right now but want to get a DC so I am sure this will push it over the edge. So a couple of questions.....

        1. Did you just run multiple new circuits back to the main panel or install a new panel in the garage? FYI my main panel is clear the other side of the house 100+ feet away.

        2. I know its not perfect but would it help if I upped the breaker to a 20A one and how would I check that the wiring was OK for this?

        3. will increasing the circuit to a 20A breaker actually increase the saw performance or just make it pop less?

        4. unfortunatley my studs are not open could/should I run cable on the surface in conduit?


        Congrats on your new wiring, I hope to get mine one day.
        Jon

        Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
        ________________________________

        We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
        techzibits.com

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20997
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #5
          Originally posted by poolhound
          Wow and we all thought the the most prolific poster would follow all the FAQs to the letter

          I am in exactly the same situation. I have one circuit that feeds my garage (shop), 2 outlets that have the socket mounted 6 outlet adaptors on. The garge opener and a fridge/freezer are always conected as is a radio and telephone. I know I need to do something about it as the breaker on this circuit is only 15A!!! I do pop it occasionaly, mainly when ripping thick stock. I am only using a shopvac right now but want to get a DC so I am sure this will push it over the edge. So a couple of questions.....

          1. Did you just run multiple new circuits back to the main panel or install a new panel in the garage? FYI my main panel is clear the other side of the house 100+ feet away.

          2. I know its not perfect but would it help if I upped the breaker to a 20A one and how would I check that the wiring was OK for this?

          3. will increasing the circuit to a 20A breaker actually increase the saw performance or just make it pop less?

          4. unfortunatley my studs are not open could/should I run cable on the surface in conduit?


          Congrats on your new wiring, I hope to get mine one day.
          1 my panel was in the garage.
          2 If you want to change the breaker to 20A, then the wiring had better be at least 12-2, it should be stamped on the jacket. Or you can check the bare wire with a caliper to make sure it is 12 ga. If its only 14 ga., no can do.
          3 maybe and yes
          4 don't really know.
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • BobSch
            • Aug 2004
            • 4385
            • Minneapolis, MN, USA.
            • BT3100

            #6
            A sub panel in the garage is on my list for this summer. Like Loring, I'm lucky enough to have unfinished walls, so I can route my cables easily. I'm going to use all 12-2 with 20 amp breakers and outlets. When that's done, I'm going to insulate, sheetrock and paint the walls. Then come the shop cabinets, a lumber rack, and, and, and...
            Bob

            Bad decisions make good stories.

            Comment

            • LarryG
              The Full Monte
              • May 2004
              • 6693
              • Off The Back
              • Powermatic PM2000, BT3100-1

              #7
              Jon, on your Q4, wiring run in conduit is supposed to be individual conductors, for better heat dissipation. However, there is an exception in the NEC that allows Romex to be run in conduit for the purposes of protecting it from damage. To my knowledge, it doesn't say how long such protected runs can be, but the intent appears to be short distances.

              In my shop, I decided I wanted to run exposed Romex in the ceiling joist spaces overhead, and then make my drops down to the wall boxes with Romex encased in 1/2" conduit, about 4' long, to protect the Romex from snagging accidents and the like. I described this proposal to our electrical consultant (a registered EE in private practice; he told me about the exception) and he blessed it.
              Larry

              Comment

              • poolhound
                Veteran Member
                • Mar 2006
                • 3195
                • Phoenix, AZ
                • BT3100

                #8
                Originally posted by LarryG
                Jon, on your Q4, wiring run in conduit is supposed to be individual conductors, for better heat dissipation. However, there is an exception in the NEC that allows Romex to be run in conduit for the purposes of protecting it from damage. To my knowledge, it doesn't say how long such protected runs can be, but the intent appears to be short distances.

                In my shop, I decided I wanted to run exposed Romex in the ceiling joist spaces overhead, and then make my drops down to the wall boxes with Romex encased in 1/2" conduit, about 4' long, to protect the Romex from snagging accidents and the like. I described this proposal to our electrical consultant (a registered EE in private practice; he told me about the exception) and he blessed it.
                I have done electrics before but not for a long time so not sure on code. As my main breaker box is so far away I was considering maybe getting an electrician to run a large circuit from the main box to a new breaker panel in the garage or would this be fine for me to do? I could then install the single spur circuits from here and each would be single runs. I would probably leave the existing circuits and use for the lower power stuff. With a small panel I could then add maybe 4 new dedicated circuits and this should be fine.

                I do need to go and check my current main panel and see how full it is, both in terms of breakers and capacity.
                Jon

                Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
                ________________________________

                We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
                techzibits.com

                Comment

                • mschrank
                  Veteran Member
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 1130
                  • Hood River, OR, USA.
                  • BT3000

                  #9
                  Originally posted by LCHIEN
                  GE thin-profile 20A Breakers (that matched my breaker box) surprisingly were only $3.50 at HD, $3.72 at Lowes. Duplex Outlet boxes, outlet, and cover around 2 bucks per duplex outlet,
                  the 12-2 NM wire was the most expensive part... about $32 for 50 feet boxes, I had part of one, ended up buying 2 more before I was done. I could have bought 250 feet for $68...
                  Given all the advice you've given out over the years on electrical, I sure would've thought you had done this a long time ago! Feels good to get it done, though, huh?

                  You really lucked out on those prices for breakers...I just spent $16.00 to replace a bum one in my box. Any I can sympathize on the wiring. On both my garage remodel and my kitchen remodel, I realized in the end that I could have saved big $$ if I would have correctly estimated the amount of wire I needed.

                  Curious FYI-I read that in the Chicago area, they just recently started approving using romex. Prior to this, ALL residential wiring had to be either BX or in conduit, even wiring inside walls. From what I understand, most sparkies in Chicago still distrust NM/Romex.
                  Mike

                  Drywall screws are not wood screws

                  Comment

                  • rnelson0
                    Established Member
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 424
                    • Midlothian, VA (Richmond)
                    • Firestorm FS2500TS

                    #10
                    I would like to add that I did this recently, too. And I made a mistake.

                    Get your shop layed out first, THEN get the wiring in. Even if it means moving 1000 pounds of stuff away from the walls. I am now in a situation where I wish I could move the wire a mere 2 inches to the right so I could slide something back against the wall. Oh well, one inch isn't a killer, but it's annoying after all that work!

                    Comment

                    • LCHIEN
                      Internet Fact Checker
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 20997
                      • Katy, TX, USA.
                      • BT3000 vintage 1999

                      #11
                      Originally posted by JR
                      Oh boy, am I envious! I can really relate to your issues regarding extension cords on the floor, and unplugging the compressor.

                      I've managed to get my shop set up with a dedicated ckt for the BT3K, but everything else is a compromise. For instance the overhead air filter is on the light switch.

                      Unfortunately, I just can't cram in any more breakers on my 100A panel.

                      Congratulations on moving the ball forward. You're going to be a lot happier in your shop from now on.

                      JR
                      You might check, some manufacturers have half-width breakers, where two breakers fit in the space taken by one in older boxes. That's the case with my GE breakers series THQP. I think the half-size breakers were to solve problems like yours where more breakers were needed in less space. In this case you don't need to replace all the breakers, just replacing four breakers would then free up four more spaces.
                      Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-25-2008, 03:24 PM.
                      Loring in Katy, TX USA
                      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                      Comment

                      • poolhound
                        Veteran Member
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 3195
                        • Phoenix, AZ
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        I just checked my house's main panel and the primary breaker is 200A with 24 slots. I added up all the current breakers and they total 460A.

                        I know that one is never going to max out all circuits at the same time but what are the guidelines & code related to the relationship between the max rating and the total of the indiviudal circuits?

                        Likewize if I am going to install a subpanel in my garage what value breaker do I need in the main panel? I saw some small subpanels in HD for less than $20 rated at 100A with 6 full size slots (12 with mini breakers). I would guess I might install up to 4 20A circuits in the shop, 1 for the saw, 1 for DC and then two others in convienient locations. The most that might be running at any one time would be the Saw (or other large tool), the DC, shop filter and maybe a compressor (only small one). In the summer there may be an small AC unit.
                        Jon

                        Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
                        ________________________________

                        We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
                        techzibits.com

                        Comment

                        • BigguyZ
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jul 2006
                          • 1818
                          • Minneapolis, MN
                          • Craftsman, older type w/ cast iron top

                          #13
                          I'm in the middle of a similar upgrade.

                          I have a basement shop that was previously powered by one of those adapters that adds an outlet to a bulb socket. That was screwed into a ceramic socket, which was operated on a pull chain. Then, a 3 prong 3-way splitter was plugged into that, where 2 extension cords are plugged into that to power whatever. However, the ceramic socket has broken away from the octagon box that is was screwed to.

                          So, I have 3 15A lines run to the shop area. I figured I'd go with 15A b/c the draw on my TS is 15A, it'll be dedicated, and that draw is peak anyways. Also- I don't have the higher gague wire to support 20A.

                          Anyways, I figure 1 line for the TS, Another for the lighting (I only have the two bulbs for the entire shop, or some 500W halogens plugged into the extension cord), and one last line that will feed in series 5 outlet boxes placed in the joists around the outside of the shop.

                          Until I get the new wiring in, I really don't feel safe using the current electrical "setup".

                          Comment

                          • pelligrini
                            Veteran Member
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 4217
                            • Fort Worth, TX
                            • Craftsman 21829

                            #14
                            Originally posted by LCHIEN
                            While up in the rafters I tossed out several items that were cluttering up the overhead (i.e. the box my first CD-ROM drive came in... hmmm 1994?).
                            Hehe, I just tossed my first CD-ROM box last month. It went to a 4x CD-ROM and an ISA Sound-blaster card with an IDE port for the reader.

                            Must be a good feeling to have the power the way you want it now.

                            I really need to run a sub-panel out to my woodshed too. Power is handled via two 12ga extension cords; one to a 15a circuit on the back porch and another going into nearby bedroom window for another 15a circuit if needed. There's a 30a 220v breaker doing nothing in my box that is just begging to feed a subpanel in my backyard shed. Our clothes dryer is gas and that dedicated circuit needs to be re-routed.
                            Last edited by pelligrini; 03-25-2008, 04:08 PM.
                            Erik

                            Comment

                            • LCHIEN
                              Internet Fact Checker
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 20997
                              • Katy, TX, USA.
                              • BT3000 vintage 1999

                              #15
                              Originally posted by poolhound
                              I just checked my house's main panel and the primary breaker is 200A with 24 slots. I added up all the current breakers and they total 460A.

                              I know that one is never going to max out all circuits at the same time but what are the guidelines & code related to the relationship between the max rating and the total of the indiviudal circuits?

                              Likewize if I am going to install a subpanel in my garage what value breaker do I need in the main panel? I saw some small subpanels in HD for less than $20 rated at 100A with 6 full size slots (12 with mini breakers). I would guess I might install up to 4 20A circuits in the shop, 1 for the saw, 1 for DC and then two others in convienient locations. The most that might be running at any one time would be the Saw (or other large tool), the DC, shop filter and maybe a compressor (only small one). In the summer there may be an small AC unit.
                              You don't have to worry about pulling 460 amps from your breaker box, if it has a 200 A main breaker it will not allow more than about 200 amps regardless of the total of your individual breakers.

                              If you put in a subpanel, the choice of its breaker will be dictated not by the total of the individual breakers but by the size of the wire run to the subpanel. You need to chose wire gauge based on a compromise of cost, ease of running the line, and the total number of peak amps you expect to use at one time from the subpanel.

                              probably take a couple of iterations before you arrive at a wire gauge number you can live with, then you pick the maximum or smaller breaker allowed for that line.
                              Loring in Katy, TX USA
                              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                              Comment

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