Thien Cyclone done! Pics coming...

[dbhost]

Just a seat of the pants update. I have mentioned a Clean Stream HEPA as I was wanting and fully intending to buy one to replace my Ridgid HEPA filter because I was under the impression that the Ridgid was not washable. I went by Home Depot and found the box for the Ridgid HEPA filter, and grabbed the instructions inside and actually read them. Wash with cold water from the inside out and allow to air dry, which I did last night before going to bed... I found the filter dry when I came home from work today. I also found several joints in my plumbing that was leaking like a sieve. disassembled the joints, wrapped two windings of masking tape on, and reassembled them to seal it all up. Nice snug, air tight fit now...

The entire system pulls like a raving maniac again. I spent probably 2 hours on the table saw, and with the router tonight, and vacuumed up stuff that had gotten behind the work bench. Probably better part of a gallon of material got processed tonight. There is now LESS material in the tank of the vac (I am assuming since I was stupid and forgot to clean the tank at the same time that it is now in the HEPA filter). The pull of this vac is amazing! Now on to some projects!

[dbhost]

I have had my cyclone complete and functioning for a little over a week, and I have had a bit of work going on in my shop. chasing leaks in my plumbing system. With the leaks stopped (taped over joints), plus after discovering that I could wash out my Ridgid HEPA filter and reuse it I was able to bypass the need for the Clean Stream HEPA filter (Saved myself $35.00 after tax..). Performance wise. I find that I can just touch the end of an extended tool hose and it will contract immediately just like running it straight off the vac.

Some planing, a lot of routing, plenty of table saw work, and lots of work on the oscillating sander

I have filled the 20 gallon trash can about 2/3 of the way with mostly planer shavings, router chips and fine dust from sanding operations with the oscillating sander.

The filter itself has a barely visible dusting of fines, there actually appears to be LESS dust in the bottom of the vac compared to the photo I posted after first testing.

So for the function so far, this works not only as well as I had hoped, but far better...

I've also been reading Bill Pentz' web site, and I tend to agree with a great deal he talks about. This setup with the shop vac I think from what I can tell from Bill's site is probably a better functioning system than a 4" ducted full DC due to the higher static pressure, since the 4" duct DC can't move either enough CFM or static pressure...

The amount of dust, and dirt that was in the filter after the weeks worth of work and testing...


The amount of material that was in the trash can cyclone after a weeks worth of work and testing.


The amount of material left in the vac after a weeks worth of work and testing.
*NOTE ABOUT THE VAC PIC*** I empited the vac into the can after the initial test, and prior to planing, sanding, etc...


I somewhat suspect that the fines that had been in the can after the first runs were there because the filter was so plugged as to not allow sufficient airflow. With the filter cleaned, it made all the difference in the world, however the fines appear to have gotten sucked up into the filter...

There is no dust on the inside of the filter housing, or on the exhaust from the vac. So at least from that measure we seem to be effective.

I now would very much like to clean the filter, AND the interior surfaces of all components involved to have a completely blank slate to test from again. But so far I am very impressed with the results.

[LCHIEN]

Originally Posted by dbhost

...

I now would very much like to clean the filter, AND the interior surfaces of all components involved to have a completely blank slate to test from again. But so far I am very impressed with the results.

It's a wet-dry vac, you should be able to wash the insides out pretty well.

[dbhost]

Originally Posted by LCHIEN

It's a wet-dry vac, you should be able to wash the insides out pretty well.

What about the ribs up on the motor housing? I guess as long as I don't shoot water direct into the motor I should be good right? Just keep the filter in place...

[cgallery]

Originally Posted by dbhost

What about the ribs up on the motor housing? I guess as long as I don't shoot water direct into the motor I should be good right? Just keep the filter in place...

When testing, I use a leaf blower to clean my shop vac out. Gets it clean as new.

[dbhost]

Cool...

Is the tank in the vac supposed to get LESS in it when tossing a clean filter at it? I am actually surprised by how I just have a thin dusting on the tank.

[LCHIEN]

Originally Posted by dbhost

Cool...

Is the tank in the vac supposed to get LESS in it when tossing a clean filter at it? I am actually surprised by how I just have a thin dusting on the tank.

could be static charge on the dust particles from being whipped around at speed. They then cling to the plastic tenaciously.

[cgallery]

Originally Posted by LCHIEN

it would be intersting if you measured the amps of the vac running without the sep to the amps of the vac running with the sep and the amps with the hose blocked completely off. The amps is an indication of the air flow, to some extent. If it remains the same then the sep has not affected the air flow, if it changes by 20% then you have a considerable impact on the air flow.

I wanted to follow-up on Loring's brilliant idea.

Shop vac w/ only 1-1/2' hose connected: 11.85 amps.

Now connect hose to separator, with nothing connected to separator's inlet: 11.4 amps.

Now block separator's inlet with block of wood: 8.1 amps.

This experiment was performed with a cheap Radio Shack clamp-on (analog). The vac was a Ridgid WD1450.

One question I have is, how accurate is the RS ammeter? The specs for the Ridgid claim it is 11 amps. But I started at 11.85 amps with a short hose. So maybe the Radio Shack meter isn't that accurate? Is it customary for devices to exceed the amperage of what a manufacturer claims on their web site?

I will do more testing with a larger unit and a conventional blower. I think the higher initial SP of the shop vac handles the loss of the separator w/o much problem.

[LCHIEN]

Originally Posted by cgallery

I wanted to follow-up on Loring's brilliant idea.

Shop vac w/ only 1-1/2' hose connected: 11.85 amps.

Now connect hose to separator, with nothing connected to separator's inlet: 11.4 amps.

Now block separator's inlet with block of wood: 8.1 amps.

This experiment was performed with a cheap Radio Shack clamp-on (analog). The vac was a Ridgid WD1450.

One question I have is, how accurate is the RS ammeter? The specs for the Ridgid claim it is 11 amps. But I started at 11.85 amps with a short hose. So maybe the Radio Shack meter isn't that accurate? Is it customary for devices to exceed the amperage of what a manufacturer claims on their web site?

I will do more testing with a larger unit and a conventional blower. I think the higher initial SP of the shop vac handles the loss of the separator w/o much problem.

I'm not too sure about that RS meter... the website shows a clamp on analog meter but this the first ever meter which des not give specs in the Tech specs section so it must be pretty bad and accuracy a low priority to the marketing dept.

one of the problems with measuring AC is that its a much more complex measurement than DC. And Current is always more inaccurate than measuring voltage. Because AC is converted to equivalennt DC and Current is converted to Voltage. For example I have 2 very good handheld meters, a Fluke 83 and a Fluke 87.

DCV spec is +/-.1%
ACV spec is +/-.5 to .7%
DCA spec is .4%
and ACA spec is 1.2%
the resolution is 1/4000 counts or .025%

this reflects that DC volts is the native measurement and there are conversion errors going from either current to voltage and from AC to DC and is worst going from AC Amps to DCV.

I also have a AC current clamp from HF - cost me about $12 on sale I think. And I have a Kill-a-Watt meter, they go for about $20-30.

With my Fluke meters I can measure current directly (I have a special cord that plugs into the wall, has an outlet for the appliance and a pair of plugs to go in the COM and Amp jacks on the meter - this puts the full curret through you meter so you have to take care, but you can measure AC or DC this way. I can also measure the AC current with a current clamp probe, this one was from fluke and cost about $60 IIRC, it has equivalent of 1000: 1 so a wire in the jaws passing 1 amp will cause a milliamp to flow, you plug this into the mA jack on your meter and 1 mA indicated 1000 mA or 1A of current.

I measured pretty ACVolts pretty close on all the devices- F83=123.4, F87=123.4, HF=123, KaW=122.7 So most all devices will measure pretty closely on the ACVolts scale.

MY shop vac is a 7.3A rated Ridgid W06250
With no hose i measured KaW=7.8A, F83direct=6.55, F87Direct=7.70, HF=6.7 to 8.3 (see note), F83clamp=6.73 and F87clamp=7.70

With the hose on giving some restriction a tiny bit.

With the hose blocked off giving essentially no air flow KaW=5.60 F83direct=4.83 F87Direct=5.40

What I observed was that the HF clamp depended a great deal upon where the wire was in the loop - moving it closer to the seam got like 6.9A and farthest from the gap got 8.3A I suspect the theres some magnetic leakage where the clamp closes and it affects the reading, The more tight Fluke clamp (remember this clamp cost $60 and did not include the meter) had a small loop and was not affected by position and gave very consistent readings even compared to the direct method. I'm thus finding it hard to recommend any cheap clamp device (this may eplain your reading).

I am very partial to the best equipment and the Fluke 87 will read AC better than other meters because it uses a True RMS calculation which accurately measures distorted waveforms which is what you sometimes get with inductive motors under load.

I'm not sure if the Kill-a-Watt meter uses true RMS calculation but it appears it does. I am very impressed with it and it appears to give readings that follow very closely +/- 2% to my true RMS FLuke 87 which means the KaW meter is much better than my Fluke 83 which does not have True RMS calculations.

So to answer your original question I can see how your meter could be way off, inexpensive current clamp and analog meter (always good for 1-2% reading error), possible inaccurate current conversion and low cost meter make for questionable values. I think the variability I find in the clamp position are the worst source of error.

The Kill-A-Watt meter in my estimation is a very good device. It has AC outlet built in which makes all these suicide cords (Thats Electrical engineer speak for dangerous power cords with open clips and plugs for making measurements or powering devices with no cord) unneeded. At the push of a button it deliveres ACV, AC Amps, and watts very accurately. Its great for measuring power to devices, not good for troubleshooting because you can't probe anywhere else. I got mine for $20 off eBay, a great value, HF has them for $30.

As for the other question, can a vac take more power than the nameplate says, mine did 7.7A with a plate raing of 7.3. Of course my nominal AC power was 5% higher than 115V so that would make the current go up by about 5% as it measures compared to a nameplate rating at 115VAC.

11.85 is about 3-4% higher than 11.4; Between questions about your meter and probe accuracy and the actual line voltage, you don't really know that its too high.

[cgallery]

EXCELLENT information, thank you.

I'll order a Kill-A-Watt from eBay. HF only seems to have KAW strips for $99 .