10x12 workshop layoug ideas and Questions...

[dbhost]

After some discussion with LOML about the stuff that keeps showing up in the shop / garage, the inevitable discussion came back to a shed in the back yard. And the HOA rules that say no sheds over 10x12, and no taller than 10'. (So a gambrel roof mini barn is out of the question).

We talked about storing stuff in the shed, and keeping the garage for the shop with my assertion that 10x12 is simply not enough space to work in... But if I recall right, Pappy, Pelligrini, and a few other Texas woodworkers here, as well as folks from elsewhere in the U.S., Canada, and various nations worldwide have shops that are no bigger than that. (Not including lumber storage.)

We went by the big orange box this weekend and looked at the sheds they had in the parking lot, and I took out the measuring tape,and looking into that space it does seem like it really could work for me if I lay it out right.

While these drawings are FAR from final, they give you an idea of where I am going thought wise with setting up shop. The planer / jointer storage will of course get shelves, I'll have to figure out how, but I want to hang the miter saw stand from just under the ridge, and other misc other ideas... But this gives you a rough idea of how I think this should fit...

The pics don't show the window just under the miter saw shelf, which will of course hold the Window Unit A/C. And the walls door, and ceiling will be insulated, most likely with radiant barrier OSB decking.

Now the big questions.

#1. Am I on the right track, or am I being too optimistic about this idea?
#2. How do I get electrical power to the shed, and how much amperage do I need?

[poolhound]

If it were me, unless the 10x12 shed were my only alternative I would use it for storage and make more room in the garage for your shop. Thats what I did and after getting rid of most of the large items normally in my garage I gained a lot of room.

I spent a lot of time building various mobile and multi function bases so I can pull the right tools into the middle of the garage for use and then they go back into place around the edge and we can still easily fit my truck and LOML's car.

I doubt all my tools and benches would even fit in a 10x12 and still leave enough room to move. I am sure it could be done but even though I have to share the space with my vehicles the open 18x18 space thats left when I take them out gives me plenty of room to work in.

[LarryG]

1. Most if not all of the vest-pocket shops I've seen are really tool storage buildings, with the actual "shop" being the great outdoors. Pappy and Pelligrini could speak to this better than I can, but I think that's the case for both of them. Obviously some work can be done inside, but, just as obviously, anything that requires a lot of infeed/outfeed room will have to move outside. That puts you more at the mercy of the weather, and possibly the neighbors (noise and dust). You will need to factor setup and breakdown time into whatever "shop" time you have available, too.

2. If you can, run buried cable from your house panel to a subpanel in the shed. Mine has a 60W main and that's enough for a one-man shop with only one major tool plus the lights and my dust collector running simultaneously. But I say "if" because there may be physical limitations that preclude this, like a concrete patio in the way; or there may be regulatory limitations. I've heard of subdivision covenants and HOAs that allow only a single 120V circuit to such an outbuilding, to help restrict what it can be used for.

[dbhost]

Agreed. However LOML keeps using the shop / garage as a staging space. We are still moving her stuff out of storage from her parents house. (She was living with her folks when we met... long story, medical issue with a parent). No matter how much I work on keeping it clean, I keep ending up with a new pile on a weekly basis...

Yeah 10x12 would go a LONG way to storing the other stuff. However I want a space that is *MINE*, not shared with cars, or grandmas mixing bowls that don't quite match the dishes we own etc...

I guess I should just be patient as she figures out what is to be kept, what is to be donated, and what is to be put in totes and shoved into the attic until we have younguns...

I took a tape measure to the garage this morning...

18' wall to wall wide. 18' door to "shelf" deep. Shelf is 2" tall x 2' deep. The funny cubby hole thing is 2' 4" deep x 5' 4" wide and full height.

The garage / workshop not only is a shop, it also stores the following.

Lawn & Garden:
-21" High Wheel Lawn Mower.
-Steel tube wheelbarrow.
-Cheapo Electric Edger.
-Misc Shovels, rakes, hoes, pruners.
-Hedge Trimmer.
-14" Electric Chain Saw.
-Scotts spreader
-Misc bags of various fertilizer, top soil, planter pots, etc...

Sporting Goods:
-2 @ 152 Qt coolers
-1 @ 60 Qt wheeled cooler
-1 @ 30 Qt wheeled cooler. (LOML's cooler, used it when she was single)
-7 @ tents. including 20x10 & 10x10, 12x10, 9x7, 12x12 (from 1987), Solo tent, 3 man backpacking tent.
-Pelican 146DLX canoe, paddles, vests, dry bags, etc...
-Full on backpacking gear for 2 hikers in 1 60QT tote excluding tents mentioned above.
-Full on car camping gear in 2 120qt totes excluding tents mentioned above.
-Basketballs
-Footballs
-Snorkeling / scuba gear for 2 (Fins, masks, snorkels, gear bags).
-kites.
-River tubes.

Barbecue:
-New Braunfels Bandera Smoker. Needs shot of new BBQ black paint that peeled off during yesteray's burn.
-Large Weber table top kettle. GREAT for takign to the beach.
-Plastic charcoal containers.
-Misc BBQ specific utensils.
-New Branfels Bandera cover.
-Weber charcoal chimney starter.

If I can get this stuff out of the garage, and get my stuff on mobile bases, I would have PLENTY of space to work in...

[dbhost]

1... I've heard of subdivision covenants and HOAs that allow only a single 120V circuit to such an outbuilding, to help restrict what it can be used for.

Yeah, I am kind of at the mercy of my HOA here...

I can do pretty much what I want in the garage. Keeping it cool isn't exactly a joy though... It's possible, but setup of the cooling system is a pain... Heating is no biggie though...

Just to give you guys an idea of what I am fighting against. I had the shop clean Friday. Now the right bay that was 100% clear now has a 3 foot high stack of boxes 3/4" of the way back, all the way across.

[poolhound]

I would say mine is just a bit bigger than yours. I still have to share it with a small amount of household storage and the outside fridge but thats not such a bad thing as its always stocked with water, soda and BEER!

I got rid of all the gardening stuff and the like into the shed and that really helped. I now have room for all my tools and probably have at least 400/bdft of lumber and sheet goods at hand. While it would be great to have the whole space dedicated to me it works pretty well.

I would be patient and plan around getting access to the whole space at some point. I think you would be frustrated with the 10x12 and end up using the garage space anyway.

[dbhost]

I would say mine is just a bit bigger than yours. I still have to share it with a small amount of household storage and the outside fridge but thats not such a bad thing as its always stocked with water, soda and BEER!

I got rid of all the gardening stuff and the like into the shed and that really helped. I now have room for all my tools and probably have at least 400/bdft of lumber and sheet goods at hand. While it would be great to have the whole space dedicated to me it works pretty well.

I would be patient and plan around getting access to the whole space at some point. I think you would be frustrated with the 10x12 and end up using the garage space anyway.

I don't mind sharing the space so much. I can get ALL of the other MISC stuff into a shed with proper shelving, and have easy access to it. I might have to roll out a lawnmower and a smoker to get to my tents and backpacks but I'm good with that... I kind of have to do that now... I want to get to the point where my shop shares space with the car, and LOMLs projects. (I am SERIOUSLY considering "nesting" workbenches since LOML is much shorter than me, to give her room to work on her floral stuff)... I guess it's back to moving stuff up into the attic, and clearing the spot for the shed for me!

[LarryG]

Yeah 10x12 would go a LONG way to storing the other stuff. However I want a space that is *MINE*, not shared with cars, or grandmas mixing bowls that don't quite match the dishes we own etc

I can understand this, even though I've never had to put up with such a situation. My current shop is housed in a two-car garage that I rent from a neighbor. Perhaps my greatest joy, shop-wise, is that I can unlock the door, turn on the lights, and go right to work, with no delay. I actually carry that even further by having only two tools -- bandsaw, thickness planer -- on mobile bases. The bandsaw hardly ever moves (it did in a previous layout, hence the mobile base). The planer only moves when I need more infeed clearance at the adjacent jointer. Not having to shuttle tools around saves time, too. Cleaning up is about the only "lost" time I have -- although it's not actually lost. I'm no Rod Kirby, but I keep everything reasonably neat and tidy, so I don't forever have a bunch of crap in my way and so I can find things when I need them. "A place for everything and everything in its place" saves me far, FAR more time than I spend running the push broom and shop vac, and putting things back where they belong when I'm finished with them.

A useful exercise might be to work up a realistic estimate of what that 10 x 12 building will cost to build (hint: it'll be more than you think) and see how much mini-warehouse space that sum would rent for however many years.

[dbhost]

A useful exercise might be to work up a realistic estimate of what that 10 x 12 building will cost to build (hint: it'll be more than you think) and see how much mini-warehouse space that sum would rent for however many years.

I've got a written estimate from Tuff Shed, I am assuming they would be about the most expensive.

The same space rent would take 3 years to pay back, plus I get the additional resale value on the house for having additional on site storage. Not to mention no need for separate insurance for a storage unit.

Yeah I thought about setting up shop in a storage building separate from my property, I even talked to a building owner in early September, then Hurricane Ike happened...

[Cody.h]

1. Most if not all of the vest-pocket shops I've seen are really tool storage buildings, with the actual "shop" being the great outdoors. Pappy and Pelligrini could speak to this better than I can, but I think that's the case for both of them. Obviously some work can be done inside, but, just as obviously, anything that requires a lot of infeed/outfeed room will have to move outside. That puts you more at the mercy of the weather, and possibly the neighbors (noise and dust). You will need to factor setup and breakdown time into whatever "shop" time you have available, too.

2. If you can, run buried cable from your house panel to a subpanel in the shed. Mine has a 60W main and that's enough for a one-man shop with only one major tool plus the lights and my dust collector running simultaneously. But I say "if" because there may be physical limitations that preclude this, like a concrete patio in the way; or there may be regulatory limitations. I've heard of subdivision covenants and HOAs that allow only a single 120V circuit to such an outbuilding, to help restrict what it can be used for.

First of all let me apologize for not being a better contributer(sp) to our forum....was at a job where I had too much to do to allow me any internet time at work....put a stop to that though.

Well as a proud owner of a 10 x 12 shop I can attest to what Larry says especially the set-up and breakdown time, but it is quite doable. Your sketch-up drawing looks to be on track but you will have less walk around space then the drawing shows ...at least I do.

The best thing I did was put my CMS and planer on the Rigid MSUV so I can just wheel them outta the shop after I open the doors, this is especially good for the CMS as cutting with it is messy in the shop anyways. Almost eveything is on mobile bases BT3, jointer, bandsaw, dust collector, 10-20 sander on top of roll around tool box. Drill press and 2 benches are stationary against the wall. I do have the luxury of a loft but really use it mostly for automotive tools storage...lumber storage mostly in the garage.

I did buy one of those plastic 5 x 5 rubbermaid storage sheds for lawn and garden equipment that tucks in between the house and the fense..have to look for it it fits so well. I've had it like 4 years now and had zero problems with it even in the west texas wind.

For electric I had 1 open space in the house breaker so I installed a 110 volt 30 amp breaker and ran 10 gauge underground wire through the attic, down conduit to the ground,inside pvc in the ground and up through the wood floor to small breaker box. I installed 3 20 amp breakers in that box and wired up 3 seperate circuits. Basically 1 for the lights and stereo and 1 down each side of the shed. Once in a while my planer will throw a breaker when it 1st starts but thats it.

Use to be a couple of pics on here but I cant find em now....let me know if ya wanna see a few and I'll post them.

[dbhost]

Cody,

I'd love to see pics if you have any of your shop.

[docrowan]

I prefer working outside, no worries about dust containment, plenty of space, fresh air and sunshine. Slicing up 4X8 sheets of 3/4 MDF takes some serious dust suction and space, I have a 12X20 that still is not adequate for this. Much easier to do this outside.

If you go with the 10X12 shed, preplan a level floor that goes straight from the shed to a good size pad or deck outside. I really wish I had something like this. I have to drag everything out to a triangular grassy area in front of my shop.

Also, headroom can be extremely valuable space. Collar ties will be your new best friend. Pappy uses this space more effectively than anyone.

[pelligrini]

1. Most if not all of the vest-pocket shops I've seen are really tool storage buildings, with the actual "shop" being the great outdoors. Pappy and Pelligrini could speak to this better than I can, but I think that's the case for both of them. Obviously some work can be done inside, but, just as obviously, anything that requires a lot of infeed/outfeed room will have to move outside. That puts you more at the mercy of the weather, and possibly the neighbors (noise and dust). You will need to factor setup and breakdown time into whatever "shop" time you have available, too.

Those observations are pretty much spot on. Not much work gets done inside mine. Working inside a 10x12 space isn't easy. I will do some work, but the majority of any cutting and routing gets done outside. I don't really have a dust collection system and that is another reason for outside work.

[JR]

And the HOA rules that say no sheds over 10x12, and no taller than 10'.

Are you sure that rule precludes building an "out building"? The word "shed" is sometimes used in a way to differentiate from a "building". A shed would not require power, and may have limitations on the kind of power you are allowed. A building would require power, and possibly plumbing. It's not uncommon for city or county laws to limit sheds just as your HOA does.

It seems to me many HOAs would allow the building of a mother-in-law's quarters or hobby shop, even when the rules prohibit a shed of the size you'd want. HOAs do some crazy things, but it just may be that you could get a bigger shop if you stare at those CC&Rs a little harder.

JR

[dbhost]

Are you sure that rule precludes building an "out building"? The word "shed" is sometimes used in a way to differentiate from a "building". A shed would not require power, and may have limitations on the kind of power you are allowed. A building would require power, and possibly plumbing. It's not uncommon for city or county laws to limit sheds just as your HOA does.

It seems to me many HOAs would allow the building of a mother-in-law's quarters or hobby shop, even when the rules prohibit a shed of the size you'd want. HOAs do some crazy things, but it just may be that you could get a bigger shop if you stare at those CC&Rs a little harder.

JR

To quote my covenants and restrictions...

1. An "outbuilding" is defined as any structure which is not attached to the main structure. This definition does not include bonafide additions to the main residence or garages, but does include storage sheds and gazebos.
2. The ACC will consider the following:
1. The colors should match/blend with the predominant exterior colors of the main residence.
2. Materials should match those of the main residence in both size and color, however, the ACC will approve small prefabricated metal storage buildings providing the color blends with the main residence.
3. It should have a peaked roof, no higher than 9 feet (9’) from the ground to the highest point and a maximum of ten feet by twelve feet (10’X12’) of floor space. The structure must be kept a minimum of three feet (3’) off the rear and side property lines. Distance from the side property line may be increased based on visibility from the street in front of the lot. Location must also be far enough away from fence to allow for drainage to occur entirely on the owner’s lot. The structure will be considered on a case by case basis.
4. Storage buildings placed on a concrete slab on top of a utility easement will require letters of Consent to Encroach as it will not be considered portable. If a storage building is not on the utility easement, but on a slab, and can be moved, the ACC will consider it as portable.
5. No storage building can be built up against any side or rear wall of the home unless its maximum height is less than six feet (6’) and it is not visible above the fence. It must also comply with all the other requirements for proper construction, size, and location.
6. If its under six feet (6’), it may be placed in the side yard, provided three foot (3’) minimum is observed.
7. Freestanding Gazebo must be at least six feet (6’) away from house. It’s maximum height at peak cannot exceed eleven feet (11’) and must be three feet (3’) away from side and back fence.

Funny thing is, after the hurricane blew through, I noticed no less than 4 sheds that are at least 12x20 in my neighborhood. A lot of my neighbors get around the high fence restriction using "rot boards" which are not restricted, beneath the 6 foot pickets which are required...

The idea is to take out the existing deck (I HATE that deck anyway, it's not well set up), put up the shed, with a 2" drop to a concrete slab patio that will go from the shed to the back door. The drop will be made up with a cast in place concrete ramp. And a patio cover with ceiling fans that LOML wants.I would effectively not lose any square footage in the yard that isn't already lost to a lousy deck (Have I mentioned I hate my deck?)

With the workshop in the shed or the garage, the patio and awning are going in... And it would give me a much larger working space. But yeah, it is a PITA to have to roll everything out and back in to work. And yeah, Pappy is the king of small shop organization, with Pelligrini a close second... That's why they come to mind...