Very dissapointed and tired of this

[sailor55330]

All,

Recently, I was sent a PM to remove a post that I apparently "jabbed" another member in. I did not target any specific member, but merely stated my opinion.

I personally think that is unfair. When I was having trouble with my saw (and it still doesn't work right on the SMT), I posted many many times requesting help and much of what I got was "the saw is fine, it must be the user". If you don't think so, then go read ALL of the posts from day one without your BT3-colored glasses. I didn't say it at the time, but this greatly offended me as I know what steps I took and I followed the procedures completely. Ultimately, my saw has mechanical issues.

By having so many people blindly tell me that it must be the user and the saw could never be the problem----posters and moderators alike, I felt as if I was being dismissed and talked down to as not capbable of aligning the saw in many instances. I never once complained about that, nor did anyone stop to think that their posts might have been offensive or derogatory to me or were they ever asked to modify their posts for their opinions. There were some that offered help and to those, I thank you.

This has happened to me too many times on this board. I am tired of being made to feel as if whatever I say is not meaningful or is a personal attack when anyone with a common sense view can see that I have never named a single person in post.

I will not post on this board again. Ban me if you want, I've got nothing to lose and apparently less to gain here.

Good luck with your Bt3xx.

[Black wallnut]

Since you brought it out into the open I'll comment. You were sent a request to edit out a political jab you made that offended a fellow forum member. Our policy has always been under my watch that if a member uses the forums built in "report post" feature then it is investigated and if warrented action is taken to solve the problem. In this case you had posted "At least until the current administration steps in and tries to tell me again what is best for me and makes another stupid move." which is a political jab! As such it is out of bounds. This forum does not allow political comments from either perspective.

From day one of your participation many forum members have tried to help you to get your saw working. I've been one of those. At one point you posted that you were giving up as it simply was not working out for you, at this point I believe I posted that you had far more patience than most would have and you were perhaps making a wise choice. At no point have I read anywhere close to what you are claiming. If you felt attacked, if you feel that you were being dismissed, etc, then that is your choice as you are the one in charge of your feelings. I never intended for you to feel any way whatsoever and I doubt if any other members have either. If you felt bad due to one of my posts I am sorry.

If you choose to leave our forum that is also your choice.

[sailor55330]

Since it is out in the open, then I will respond. The comment I made was not targeted towards any member of these boards and therefore did not harm anyone. I can see your point that making fun of a current administration could be considered a "jab", but seriously? A member was so offended by a generic statement that was not directed at them that you felt the need to send me a PM to remove the post and then removed it yourself when I didn't respond quickly enough for you? It was removed before I even had a chance to respond. That's a little extreme for any board. If am not hurting anyone or making comments towards or about anyone who participates on this board, and a generic post offends any given user, that given user has the option of putting me and my posts on his/her personal "ignore" list. Seeing as how one person claimed this was offensive, I would recommend suggesting that that individual person utilize the ignore list in the future. The name of the forum is "Around the coffepot" after all.

If you are truly going to impose these types of bans and censorships, or what you call moderating, I would highly recommend you revise the rules of posting to eliminate all personal aspects, thoughts, and opinions from any posts as they could be considered "offensive" by someone. In addition, all forms of jokes or humor should be eliminated and forbidden as they could possibly be found offensive by a member.

If I said that "I don't like broccoli" and some member likes broccoli, should I have to remove that post as well? Where does it end. Maybe I should have said "In my opinion, the current administration is not doing a good job"---nah, it would have probably gotten removed anyway. What's next, if someone say red is the best color and I say blue, is that "offensive". You have to draw a line somewhere

As for leaving the forums, yes, I will and it is because of you.

And to "whoever" was offended, if it makes you feel any better, then you have your apology. Next time, try sending the person a PM and explaining how you feel.

You could always put it up to a public vote if the post was really that offensive.

[radhak]

Sailor,
I think you had the bad luck to end up with a lemon of a BT3, and no work around could have helped. Members tried to help, with way more patience than I have. You stayed with it, also with more patience that I can ever muster. My hats off on both instances.

That said, you seem to have transferred your irritation with the saw to members of this forum. And you also have not absorbed the essense of this forum : Politics and Religion are not discussed here. At times, some cross that line, and are overlooked. At others, they are pulled back. But the rules are laid out pretty clear. Your jab was not taken personally, but as crossing that line (political). Can you search and find some other similar jabs that escaped attention? Sure! But does that mean Mark should ignore that complaint and not do anything? Well, if he did that, that complainer would 'go public' like you and demand explanation! Mark is only doing his job here, and it pays him nothing! By targetting him, you are choosing a soft target. If anything, you owe him an apology.

[natausch]

Funny that quite a few members no longer own a BT3K but still find this site to be a valuable resource.

[sailor55330]

Radhak,

I disagree about your statement of me choosing a "soft target". When someone complains anonymously, the only person you can respond to is the one that brought you the complaint. If I had recieved a PM from the one I offended, I would have most likely apolgized for offending unintentially, but that person apparently chose to hide behind a moderator. At least if I have a problem, I'm not afraid to speak out.

If you run a search for "reglious" and "political", over 250 threads pop up. Not all of them are about religion and politics, but many have topics way more offensive than my one line. None of them seem to have been targeted or edited by moderators.

All I'm saying is enforce the same to everyone and not cherry pick. Fair is fair right? There is even a thread about marriage licensing for "breeding" purposes only in the archives--how is that not offensive? If a moderator's intent is to police every thread, but doesn't have time to read every post, then maybe they shouldn't be in the position. For clarity, that is not direct at anyone in particular, but a general observation. By definition, any thread started that could be interpreted as political or religious in any way should be disabled and deleted, period. The rules say those type of posts aren't allowed, period.

For the record, I was offended by the Wal-mart greeter/admiral joke and I did report it via PM to a moderator this morning. Not one comment, response, edit, or removal.

[Black wallnut]

Enough! Your PM was unfounded! YOU choose to take offense at the joke thread; however the fact in question is was the thread out of bounds according to the rules that Sam our host layed down in the beginning of this forum and it indeed was not! So no action was taken.

Let me repeat this for the cheap seats

If a post gets reported via the forum built-in "report post" function then after review I or another staff member will act! We will also act or enforce forum rules on a case by case basis on threads where no report has been given.

We are human, do not get paid for this and do so purely out of a respect for Sam and Adele. It is simply not our intent to nitpick posts. If your self esteem is so low that you feel this to not be a welcoming environment then by all means leave. At many of the forums of which I have been a member you would have long since been banned! Folks that think I over moderate need to get out more.
The fact that you can find plenty of posts without moderation should say to you that moderation is seldom used here. Sorry that you take a simple request to edit out a blatent violation of the rules as a personal attack.

[L. D. Jeffries]

Amen to Black Walnuts final (I hope) post to end this rather petty complaint! My comment is to the poster; "Grow up!"

[sailor55330]

A personal attack on my self esteem Black Walnut? That's a little out of bounds. I was not happy with the way threads were being moderated and I when I voiced my opinions and you attack my self-esteem.

You said that I "chose" to be offended by a post. I contend that the person who "reported" my comment also "chose" to be offended. What is the difference?


Best of luck

[Mr__Bill]

For the record, I was offended by the Wal-mart greeter/admiral joke and I did report it via PM to a moderator this morning. Not one comment, response, edit, or removal.

Interesting, the joke originally had the tag, 'Sargent Major', a friend said that it was only too true and would hit close to home for some. He suggested Admiral as everyone knows that retired Admirals all go into the military industrial complex so the use of Admiral would add another lever of absurdity. It seems that Generals become commentates on FOX news and that's too close to Wall-Mart Greeter. Taking his advice I changed it to Admiral. Sorry Admiral if you found offense.

However

I was told as a child that things can be offensive but only you can choose to be offended.

Bill
A joke is a joke but a good cigar is expensive

[jking]

A personal attack on my self esteem Black Walnut? That's a little out of bounds. I was not happy with the way threads were being moderated and I when I voiced my opinions and you attack my self-esteem.

You said that I "chose" to be offended by a post. I contend that the person who "reported" my comment also "chose" to be offended. What is the difference?


Best of luck

Sailor,

The difference is that your post was political in nature. The no politics/religion rule is cut & dried. If one of the moderators is notified, it will be deleted. Every now & then someone forgets this & we all get reminded of this fact.

[Daryl]

Will you guys get over this and go cut some wood or something?
If I see this thread still active when I check in again I will report the whole lot of you.

[RAFlorida]

I agree with Daryl.

Let's move on. For what it's worth, (nothing), I got reeled in once. It was my fault and I just moved on and never looked back.

[JSUPreston]

Sailor, I've been hesitant to reply in this thread, since I feel that whatever "beef" you have with Mark should have been kept private. Frankly, I've been having a few bad days lately, and so I'm going to respond and to heck with the karma.

First, let me say that other than the obvious fact finding questions, never once did I see where anyone intended to insult you with your experience with the saw. You showed a remarkable amount of patience with the saw...far more than most of us. You either got a lemon or a saw that had been abused and no longer useable, which is probably why it was given to you.

I saw your comment about the current administration in the other thread. I frankly thought that the comment was over the line, but I didn't say anything, in case it was just me. Apparently someone else agreed with me and reported the post. Should they have come to you first with the complaint? I don't know, but there is a reason for the button that allows people to report posts to the mods.

I have been on this board since Dec., 2005. In my nearly 5 years on here, I have seen posts that I thought may be slightly offensive or over the line, but I've not said anything. We're adults here, and we should be able to police ourselves, with the mods only having to step in when things get out of hand. I've only spoken with mods twice about users and offensive posts. One of the users was banned due to breaking several rules and going "toe to toe" with one of the mods and questioning his knowledge. The other user was one I pm'd Mark about several months ago. He explained to me the processes behind the scenes about how the board is modded. Since it was a PM, I won't go into details, but I will say that I have a new found respect for what these guys do.

Given your user id, I assume that you may have served in the Navy. If so, I sincerely thank you for your service. I believe that our vets should be held in honor, and have been blessed to know several fine veterans of all the armed forces. That being said, I can almost see how using the title of Admiral in the Wal-Mart joke might be offensive.

Lemme think, instead of Admiral, let's use Pat Dye...oops, that offends the Auburn fans. How about Nick Saban? Dang it, got the 'Bama fans? How about Mr. Bush or Mr. Obama? Now I've gone political and have offended both the conservatives and the liberals. I know, I'll use Bear Bryant. Now I've offended everyone politically and religiously (if you're in Alabama, you understand what I'm saying).

My point is almost everything that can be said can be taken as offensive. It is up to us as adults to try to determine if what was said was meant to be offensive, factual or humorous. Sometimes we fail and make mistakes. Sometimes the "line" on the forum is blurry and may be allowed to continue because we behave ourselves and are having a well thought out conversation.

Sailor, I highly advise that if you truly intend to leave the forum, that you do so quietly and peacefully. You will find that if you continue this argument publicly, I dare say the vast majority of the members will side with Mark on this, and any future postings you have may be ignored.

That's just my $.02 worth.

Mark, if I've crossed the line, please feel free to mod my post as appropriate. If I may suggest, I think locking this thread may be in order. Once again, thank you to all the mods. It's not an easy job, I know.

P.S.: Daryl, I was typing this while you responded. Hope you'll let me slide a little.

[RayintheUK]

Mark is only doing his job here, and it pays him nothing!

How many MORE times are we to be told this? No offence intended, radhak, but voluntary work is no excuse for poor standards and bad judgement. Anyone who disagrees with the "word from on high" is apparently of no worth and seems to be punished for their disagreement.

Since I joined, many years ago, I've contributed several articles and offered others many facilities, downloads, reference works, etc. without expectation and I've been pleased to do so. That was in the days when Sam was at the helm and sense prevailed. Of late, I've seen a decline of friendliness and standards, particularly where it involved any member with a "lively" point of view.

I've been criticized, both privately and publicly, for daring to suggest that a moderator wasn't up to the job, but - of course - my opinion was worthless because it dared to rock the establishment boat.

Now, here's another glaring example of a member with a spirited opinion and obviously strong feelings (when was that - ordinarily - ever a crime?) being put down and made to feel inferior by an overbearing attitude. Yes, I dare to suggest that Sailor was made to feel inferior. Am I able to do this because I have an insight into his feelings? No, of course not, I'm just using a rare commodity of late - common sense.

If you felt attacked, if you feel that you were being dismissed, etc, then that is your choice as you are the one in charge of your feelings.

Could that sentence BE any more patronising and judgemental? - I doubt it. What I believe it could mean is "Your feelings and opinions are not my concern and - anyway - I'm in charge."

Whilst I fully appreciate that no-one will care, one way or the other, whether or not I remain as the only existing UK member, suffice it to say that this incident has - for me - become the writing on the wall. I've been pleased to be a Platinum supporter of this Forum for several years, but this type of incident is both upsetting and unacceptable to me.

I've said frequently that a Forum should not and cannot be a democracy, but autocracy brings with it a high degree of responsibility and necessitates the total and clinical dispensation of personal preferences. Some can do that (I can, for sure, given my background), others obviously and demonstrably, cannot.

Being "offended" on someone else's behalf is an increasing current trend, although it's more often than not simply "show-boating." I'm not offended in any way, even on Sailor's behalf - that's not my place, or my right. I do, however, believe that I have the same right to offer honest criticism as anyone else, hence this reply, in public, as this was the chosen route.

RG