Silly Idea?

[jackellis]

Rockler's bench cookies look like a cool idea but I can't bring myself to pay $12 for a set when they seem simple enough to make, I typically need more than 4, and I might want some that are more than 1" thick.

Apparently the rubber surface is similar to the material used for router mats. I'm planning to use scrap tigerwood decking for the pucks. Any thoughts on what adhesive to use?

[BerniePA]

I haven't looked into it, but I heard somewhere that someone used regular hockey pucks which they said were about one buck apiece. I think they were using the router mats also, but I don't remember the adhesive.

Good luck, I may make up a few myself one of these days, (If I can steal enough pucks from the kids playing in the street!!!)

[leehljp]

I have given them some thought, but like you, I will probably make them myself. I know up front that want two kinds:

1. non slip surface on both sides so that the work item stays put. I appreciate this when I am sanding and building.
2. Slippery surface on the bottom. There have been times when something heavy needs to be rotated or moved a tad, and a slippery surfaced bottom would allow that. I appreciate this when I am doing trial or mock set ups or doing finishing touches, take apart and re-align.

I recently finished building two bookcases. I had a 3ft X 6ft table on which I did most of the construction. I added slippery material under the individual base and top book case sections so that I could move them easily back to back, end to end etc and check the sizes and alignment with each other.

When sanding, I placed the rubber anti-slip fabric under them. When I do make my pucks, they will have this. I will see what other people post here as to the glue, but for me, a good rubber cement seems like it would work.

Both have types of pucks have their place for me. And when doing fine woodworking, it sure helps to keep it above and off the table top. It sure keeps scratches down.

[mpc]

If you do make some, look at Rockler's latest variant of the Bench Cookie. Instead of router mat (or old computer mouse pad material) completely covering both flat faces/sides, the Bench Cookie Plus has a threaded insert in one face - and an opening in the mat for it. Stand-offs screw into this insert; these stand-offs are designed to slip into woodworking bench dog holes. So not only does the new cookie lift your workpiece a little and hold it... now you have an option to lift it high enough that you can slip clamps underneath it. It also gives you more clearance for longer blades/bits on tools.

Whatever material Rockler (and Bench Dog - they have bright orange twins of the Rockler blue cookies since Rockler owns Bench Dog now - or is it vise-versa?) uses for the grip surface really does grip well. The bench cookies can be placed on a pretty large incline and they stay put... and will tolerate a lot of sawdust trapped in the grip material before any real loss of grip is noticed. The in-store demo of plopping a hardwood board on Bench Cookies and then using a hand plane on the board impressed me - that's a lot of shear force they were holding.

edit: as for making them... my gut feeling is plain old contact cement would work as an adhesive. Many two-part epoxy glues are rated for rubber, plastic, and wood and ought to work well too. I'd rough up the wood face a little for the epoxy though.

mpc

[woodturner]

I just looked on the Rockler web site, and it indicates that there is a patent pending on the bench cookies.

It is illegal to reproduce any patented (or patent pending) item without the permission of the patent holder. One who makes their own bench cookie is stealing the property of Rockler.

I have not read their patent. However, one common way to circumvent a patent is to make a product that is "enough different" that it does not infringe the patent. What that means depends on how the patent is written. For example, would a square "bench cookie" infringe the patent, or does the patent only cover round ones?

As a practical matter, you are likely to get away with it, unless you share with others that you have infringed the patent. That's what happened with the wood clamps a few years back. The woodworker who was charged with patent infringement had told his buddies in the woodworking club that he had made them, and somehow that information got back to the patent owner.

[cabinetman]

Solvent based contact cement should work well with those surfaces and materials. The thought of patent infringement resulting in civil litigation is quite far fetched for personal use items. Making and selling patented items could result in a rights violation.
.

[gsmittle]

It is illegal to reproduce any patented (or patent pending) item without the permission of the patent holder. One who makes their own bench cookie is stealing the property of Rockler.

I have seen a couple of variations on the Bench Cookie, but I don't remember where/who and I'm too lazy at 7:something in the AM to look.

One was a square object with tabs for linking them together, and the other was a tiger-paw looking thing. I doubt that either is enough different to not infringe on the patent when it's granted.

Been noodling with making my own, too.

g.

[herb fellows]

I just looked on the Rockler web site, and it indicates that there is a patent pending on the bench cookies.

It is illegal to reproduce any patented (or patent pending) item without the permission of the patent holder. One who makes their own bench cookie is stealing the property of Rockler.

I have not read their patent. However, one common way to circumvent a patent is to make a product that is "enough different" that it does not infringe the patent. What that means depends on how the patent is written. For example, would a square "bench cookie" infringe the patent, or does the patent only cover round ones?

As a practical matter, you are likely to get away with it, unless you share with others that you have infringed the patent. That's what happened with the wood clamps a few years back. The woodworker who was charged with patent infringement had told his buddies in the woodworking club that he had made them, and somehow that information got back to the patent owner.

I would have thought that patent infringement only came into play if you were selling them?

As for glue, you'd be amazed at how good plain old woodworkers yellow glue is for other things. I cut opals and other gems, and the bond between a gem and the dopstick (essentially a wooden dowel) with yellow glue is superior. I also use it between wood and glass, no problems.

[pelligrini]

If you do make some, look at Rockler's latest variant of the Bench Cookie.

Those Bench Cookie Plus with the optional risers really do look handy. I have a set of 4 regular cookies I got last year on sale. They are very useful. They will go on sale every once in a while for $8 or $9.

If I were inclined to make some I would do them square. There would be a lot less wasted material and the build would go easier. I'd probably use a good spray adhesive first. Then maybe a thin application of gorilla glue if it didn't work or maybe some thicker viscosity CA.

[chopnhack]

My first impression when I saw them being sold was, gosh what a bunch of b.s. - who in their right minds would spend xx on that. After more time has passed I can see the value of what they do, just not the price tag! I am all for the individual making their own and if I was to do them for myself, square is the way I would go to.

[JR]

I'd think that 3M 77 spray adhesive or contact cement, as mentioned above, woujld work fine.

As to patent infingement, uh....

JR

[LCHIEN]

I just looked on the Rockler web site, and it indicates that there is a patent pending on the bench cookies.

It is illegal to reproduce any patented (or patent pending) item without the permission of the patent holder. One who makes their own bench cookie is stealing the property of Rockler.

....

Actually, I don't think that's true.

First thing, every patent has claims. THis delineates exactly what features are being patented.
You are permitted to make devices incorpoarting the features being patented for the purposes of investigation, reearch and development. This covers just seeing how well they work, and for the possibilities of making improvements which might themselves be patentable. That is why the patent process has evolved - making any design public knowledge and education in return for granting commercial protection. I would not consider it illegal to make my self a set just to see how they work and put them under long term test. Certainly you will not be the target of prosecution for patent infringment for making one set for use in your basement. In any case, it would not be worth the prosecution effort to recover damges, what would they get, a Dollar or less for royalties on a $12 item if they licensed it?

However, you may not sell the ones you make. Going into production and giving the ones you make to dozens of friends would be very questionable (but probably still not warranting a full lawsuit but maybe a reprimand or cease and desist letter from their lawyer, providing they ever found out about it.

I haven't seen the Rockler patent application but its likely to be fairly limited in claims. How much can you patent on some support blocks of uniform height with non-slip rubber coverings? The patent criteria is new and non-obvious (to a SKILLED PRACTITIONER). Are they telling me that they can't find any examples of where something has been put up on multiple uniform height blocks to make it easier to work on? Is rubber pads not obvious for non-slip?

When you make too broad a claim on a patent they make you narrow it down. Maybe the Rockler patent is specifically for woodworking uses or covers the specific shape (round with rounded side profile) or a specific height and or color. A very specific plastic compound that they claim has advantages?

Sometimes patents are just a verbal threat to competition, in other cases its portfolio building to get trade materials.

I considered making some - some 3.5 squares (round seems to offer no advantages to me other than aesthetic.) of 2x4 material with carpet pad spray-contact glued to both sides. I thought it finally easier to buy a set from Rockler. The Hockey puck idea sounds even better, I hadn't though of that. They're dense and almost indestructable.

I'll bet Rockler is making pretty good margins off bench cookies. They can't cost much to produce in quantity, what maybe two bucks for four sold for $10 to 12, so I'm sure they want to throw up as many competitive roadblocks as possible to keep others out.

Loring
who has 9 US Patents.

[cwsmith]

Bench cookies are easy, and they don't have to be cylindrical. I'm often amazed when I see an need like what the so-called "bench cookie" addresses become a popular commercial item. Neat, but I've got so many little scraps of 1 x and 2 x in the shop, that it takes practically no effort to quickly produce a similar answer to the "bench cookie" need.

I use that shelf/drawer liner material, which is readily available at your local discount store. A piece of carpet tape, or spray adhesive works well, if you want to make your "cookie" permanent.

As far as not being able to produce your own item, because someone has a "patent" is a misunderstanding. You cannot take someone's patent and produce it commercially for sale to others. But certainly you can produce the "idea" for your own use. The "patent" is basically a protection of a person's or company's invention from commercial theft and reproduction, thus robbing them of profit from their production. But thankfully, it's latitude does not prevent anyone from addressing a personal need with something that may duplicate the process.

Hence, "Bench Cookies", patent or not, does not prevent anyone from cutting off a piece of wood or other substance and then applying a non-skid material or an adjustable lift, in support of whatever little project they may have at hand.

Copyrights are similar, and thankfully so. While we as woodworkers cannot steal the image of someone else's work and produce it for sale to others, we can produce it for our own use. If not, we as woodworkers would be extremely limited in the scope of our projects.

CWS

[dbhost]

Not done on a bench cookie type project, but I have glued the rubber drawer liner material (same exact thing that Rockler sells as a router mat but a ton cheaper) to a shop built push block plywood base using 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. Once that stuff sets, getting whatever is glued down off is more of your problem... It holds really well...

[Cochese]

I'm likely to spend way more than $12 in time and materials to make my own. I'll keep buying.